Travis is a former collegiate team roper and bronco rider, that has found a career in relationship building and sales.Incredible science review about polyphenols vs aspirin Travis’ experience and hobby with raising cattle Team roping The conundrum of pharmaceutical representation vs fairness and the law SERIOUSLY FUNNY examples of medical sales experiences, from erection pills, to pain relief side effects, to unexpected results from an experimental weight loss drug… You will love it!

Got that? Hey, it helps if I unmute the mic there, Joe. Joe. Good morning.

On the live show every time something happens. I’m like, yep.

We’re here in Fort Worth. Where’s Jeff when you need him? Yeah, we’re here in Fort Worth. This is the gut check project, Episode Number 18. I’m in a great year with your host, Dr. Ken Brown. What’s happening? What’s going on episode number 18. We’re already up to it. This is fantastic. We’re having some great responses. I’m even like bumping into people that are looking us up and saying, hey, that’s a good show, gut check project and now vote. You’re 18 right now that’s 18 years not quite there yet. Not quite a lot. My tummy calm just go ahead and knock that off the bag. Love it forward slash spoonie. Check that out if you would like to get your own Tron T. And the reason why I’m moving so quickly today is because we’ve got some studies to get to. We’ve got an incredible guests from an industry that we don’t always get to represent on the show, of course is going to be Travis page.

Yes, we have Travis page on he is a drug Rep. But he’s also very interesting. We’re going to talk about a lot of different topics, but we’re not going to talk specifics of anything. No, it is going to be a general just pharma thing. We’re not going to get him in trouble. Now his generic company will not be brought up his generic drug won’t. It’s going to be really neutral. So there you go, Travis.

Yeah, Travis will, we will not reveal his company. And I even asked him if I could rhyme it with other words,

said no, I have a whiteboard. I was like, I’m just gonna hold it up with sign. Yeah. He said to give won’t won’t happen. Can’t do it. So that’s but we’re going to talk about a lot of other things. But one of the things I do want to talk about is the stories that you’ve had being a driver, the stories that I’ve had, through the years and training and what’s going on and how the drug industry has changed and like this, the regulations that have been in place, so it’s a wild thing, because I didn’t realize as a young person going to the doctor with my parents, what, why, in our small town of Gainesville, occasionally there was somebody in a three piece suit, sitting amongst all of the people in the in the waiting room, and they always seem to be holding pamphlets and couldn’t wait to get in and they didn’t have to have their name on the list and they would go back. But a lot of things have changed since those days and the way that pharmaceutical representatives have to become educated, how they represent to the physicians, how they support the physicians, with their staff, their patients, etc. So there’s a lot to get into. And of course, there’s lots of there’s lots of funny stories that go along with becoming a pharmaceutical rep. But you have some big news, and the big news happens to be in conjunction with the kbd health And before we forget, I wanted you to touch on the feedback that you got this last week. And then what you have coming out because there’s a little, there’s actually an updated change. So we did the box opening last week with the KVM. The health box. This is a really exciting thing. This is, you know, a brand new venture for us and for member box, and they’ve done an amazing job. And I’ve had some great feedback from my patients, and we’re going to make big difference. So in that unboxing, it was a primary gut box. Yesterday, we sat with Sarah Jean, and we’re building next month’s box, and we’re making it even better, because more vendors are allowing their products to be part of member box. You can build your own box once you get going. This is really exciting. I want to personally change the healthcare landscape naturally, and allow people to really start changing things about themselves. It’s pretty

awesome because some of the feedback that we got from our patient just yesterday that was scoped who received her first box, and she said this is amazing. I don’t have to guess anything. Moore. And I thought that was really awesome to have yet another new element of a patient testimony that says, This is helping me be healthier and I’m saving money.

Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing about the boxes once you realize that there was that study that came out that showed 79% of the stuff that you’re buying at big box stores, yeah. Or, you know, Walgreens GNC, they that article came out where it showed that it did not have on the label, what was actually in the capsules. So we took the liberty of going, Okay, you look at things like examine calm consumer labs, and you make sure that things are third party tested. And then you realize, okay, what studies have been done that have actually shown that Oh, for instance, tumeric does do this, or are trying to can help in different ways. We’ve got the science to back it and we’ve added the products and you’re able to get it at a huge discount. So this particular box, hundred and $47 for some people, that’s that’s out of range, but a lot of people already spending 250 300 on supplements and you may just be throwing it away. So hundred 47 you’re going to get over $250 worth of vetted supplements. One of the really exciting things is one of my patients. Her husband, passed away of Alzheimer’s disease I, and she, he was an artist. And so she took his original art. And she’s made cards for basically blank cards, thank you cards, old school member, like instead of just texting somebody, hey, thanks. That was awesome. You can actually write, thank you for doing whatever. Well on the back of it, all the proceeds go to the Alzheimer’s foundation. So we’re going to put that in everybody’s box. So our office purchased all of our cards, and we’re going to put that in the box. And I just want it’s it’s an opportunity to record to share that message. There’s diseases like Alzheimer’s, which are really devastating, and people need to be reminded of it and this is original art that’s being set. It’s really neat that everybody’s starting to interact going, Hey, we can put this in your box. Like that’s awesome. Thank you.

It is awesome and If you’ve ever wanted to go and use a physician’s recommendation as you move through the aisles of where what supplements actually work, which brands are the ones that I can trust and which ones can I save money on to accomplish all of the things that I want to to supplement my own health, that’s what the KB MD box is all about. So kBm d will direct you to where you can learn more, you’ll see a video of Dr. Brown unboxing the first month’s box that’ll be replaced here pretty soon when we basically update and and unpack month number two which would be very similar to one that always have small little tweaks just to basically improve your health. And you can join and you can pause it anytime there is

nothing go to the you can go to the member store and build more build, you can definitely build more you can remember boxes getting more and more products in there. And really it’s all you know, what I want to do is build a box. It’s based on science. Speaking of one of our people that had the member box sent me an article this morning that I normally wouldn’t We’re going to go to personal stuff here. Yeah, but remember, you can go to love my tummy, calm, slash spoonie and get a big discount on altran to and you’re wondering, okay, well I don’t have bloating or anything like that. This article was just sent to me about 15 minutes ago. And the article is anthocyanins protect the gastrointestinal tract from high fat diet induced alterations, blood wind barrier integrity, dysbiosis really fancy. These are the molecules are talking about right anthocyanins and what they did is they looked at mice, and they fed them a typical high sugar high fat American diet. And they demonstrated that when they did this, that the mice became fat. They had insulin resistance, they developed a state of Texas, which is fat in the liver, and they showed dysbiosis. So the bacteria got screwed up and leaky gut. Then they gave the mice the same molecules that we have innatron to fed him the same diet, and it started to reverse all that process. So the site It’s coming out on this is so fascinating. So if you don’t if you’re not taking out Toronto right now, because you’re not bloated, you might want to do it if you’re eating a typical American diet, at least on this small animal study so that’s an that’s in the box. And that’s one of the main ingredients.

Well, that’s only one more facet in terms of what are trying to or just straight pilot, Antoine Taylor not it’s really what Polly females can do to enhance or protect you and your health. So now we know that it works well for gut. Now we know that with Dr. Bo tails research from the UK from Exeter, that Polly females daily for athletes actually improves performance and tissue perfusion from from blood flow and of course you slow down your recovery time. All of that comes from polyphenols, not to mention making your endogenous or your your normal CBD your your normal Canada dials that you have in your body work more efficiently. There’s just benefits to having polyphenols in your day. diet.

So we built this box as a gut health box, right? When you start looking at the science, you got the polyphenols for performance, you’ve got the megaspore to increase the diversity of your bacteria so that they can actually use the food that you’re bringing in. And then the little thing that we talked about before was trucy. That’s the micronized hydrogen to improve your vo to max meaning that you can actually have better oxygenation. These are all studies that have just recently come out. And then of course, you get a big steep discount on KB MD CBD oil so it’s exclusive to everybody who’s a KMD box member no doubt, yeah, almost all of my patients are on Toronto plus the KB MD CBD because the molecules and are trying to augment your own endogenous endocannabinoids or in other words, your own CBD that your body produces. And of course, taking CBD is like a an insurance policy against the world because it really gets you back to balance with your immune system and your nervous system. Speaking of CBD, so I’ve tweaked my back In the past,

several years ago, a few years ago, and then unfortunately, just this last weekend, gage was up playing basketball up in Kansas. And I went up to watch him and I decided to go engage in a workout. And I lifted incorrectly I knew better, but it’s a it’s a routine workout that I normally do. But you saw this was

Ronnie Coleman 600 pounds on squat.

I did 555 50 Okay, I just want to take it easy, just be safe.

Now, truthfully, it wasn’t that much weight. But what I did is I put myself in a in a compromising angle that I don’t normally do isn’t the equipment that I usually use a new better. But regardless, I did get a small spasm in my lower back. Usually in the past, it would take five sometimes seven days to really get more mobility. Well, that that injury gets it’s a small injury occurred Sunday. And you saw me pushing beds yesterday up at the end of center and I’m not 100% but the only difference that I have now that I didn’t have the last time I hurt my back from lift is that I take on to daily and I take CBD now.

And I think that the level of inflammation that I experienced is less now it’s anecdotal. It’s just me. I feel great today. Well, soon as you feel totally 100% let’s go back to that same gym, do the exact same exercise injure yourself, but don’t take either. That way. We have a control group and we have a treatment group. You took the words out of my mouth.

That’s exactly what I want to do is drive back to Wichita, Kansas.

The people in Wichita are lovely and nice. It has nothing to do with that. It’s just five hours from here to get there. So it’s a it’s a long round trip. Looks like you got a haircut. I did get a haircut. And yeah, several of them cut

it several of them. Looks like a fancy place. Once you talking to the person that was chopping

your hand. I was the hairstylist. That’s You you call a woman that cut your hair I guess the hair stylist was cutting my hair. And she asked me that you’re sitting kind of funny in the chair and I said well actually just kind of stretching my back a little bit kind of tweaked it but I’m getting better. And then she went on to tell me a story about she had been rear ended by a large truck that had register a car on on Interstate 35. And didn’t and it took her about eight months to get back to where she could hold her arms up to cut hair and then you know work a comb and the scissors and without feeling fatigued and lots of pain. So I asked her I said what all worked and she said well I did a few things that the the pain doc recommend that do it it stretches. But what made the biggest difference for me is when I found a CBD that I could trust and then I could take but the hardest part that you try several she tried several Yeah, that’s all. She said the hardest part was finding one that was reputable that she could depend on didn’t break her wallet. So the one that worked the best was running her a little over $135 a month. And she said it didn’t always make it to the end of the month even though she was following the instructions on there. I let her talk and it was almost like she just walked straight into what you know what it is that you do and so I just ask you so what would it have made a difference if you had had a physician that said, I recommend this CBD because it works clinically for my patients and here’s why. And she said I would have done it in a heartbeat. So what if I could have told you that it would have been about half the cost of the hundred and $35 brand that you were using? She said well obviously I would have saved money I would have felt better. So I told her about KB MD and she she went straight to it and ordered some so it’s it’s it’s really kind of cool that we’ve removed the access of the cost and the the worry of is this legitimate CBD and so

everybody’s talking about it and there’s the waters are being really muddied right now. It’s there’s people there’s essential oil companies that are now trying to add CBD there’s everybody’s trying to put it in different things and people are ordering off Amazon which right now you’re getting hemp seed oil, you’re not even getting CBD. Right. There’s lots of mislabeling and so I think it’s really important to have something you can trust. Same thing that you’re doing when you’re buying a supplement you wanna make sure that your CBD is is of quality. Something cool happened as long as we’re on the topic of that Yeah. Yesterday I I like to get this Greek salad and Turkey patties from from Kenny’s burger, which is right by my rep by my office to tasty Kenny’s burger. Chef Eric said that he was gonna come on the show one day so I’m gonna hold them to it here pretty soon Oh, nice. But I was I was actually talking to some people some somewhat regulars there and somebody said hey, I googled you and I found you the show. And I went oh my gosh, that’s awesome. We actually found the show because it Google me is a doctor but finding the show is kind of a cool thing. And she goes Tell me more about the CBD and then it just immediately started this whole discussion and about the CBD. We started talking about it and then it went sideways because She goes, What are you going to talk about tomorrow? I’m like, that’s a great thing. I’m over here looking at different articles I’m gonna look at, like there’s a real interesting one that just came out about a fecal microbial transplant is not effective and irritable bowel. I forget that I’m

at a restaurant. You said that. I’m kidding. Yeah. out loud. You’re classy guy.

Real classy. Like a record stopped and everybody just kind of went. Yeah. And then I had to explain the article. I’m like, well, well, so you take one person. You slurp it up, and you put it in there

like you’re not. I’m sorry, Dr. Brown. Can you please leave the stage

and the restaurant? I know I was like, well, I yeah, okay. I’m just because it doesn’t get any better. I mean, I can go into detail about how they actually did it, which is what I’m going to do later maybe Yeah, don’t do to the restaurant

now does not does not sell more burgers.

Chef Eric and I came out and was like, yeah, let’s just move you back in the corner over there and let

everybody else eat the burgers. No need to wash your hands. Yes,

exactly. That was kind of cool. We talked about CBD. They found us just by googling and then I got put in the corner because I have a potty mouth. Oh, it’s okay. Well,

yeah, it’s a potty subject. Well hey, just a real real quick reminder for all of our listeners, be sure to like and share the gut check project and then shoot us an email at get your project calm under connect or contact let us know that you liked and shared we got hundreds of people over the last few weeks so we are still going to give away the signature protection package which is a combination of odd Tron teal and kBm dcpd month supply direct from yours truly Dr. Brown So where are we on the research topic for this week? Justin, do you want to tackle before Travis hops on or did you want to save it for

now I’ll save it for a little bit I want to get more into Tell me what happened with the family. Let’s get back to you. Oh, you’re in Wichita with gage

yeah we go. That’s great is his last big tournament as a as a high schooler before he starts High School ball they’ve got I think they have one More tournament for the rest of the summer, but they went to what they call a great American shootout. It’s basically huge, huge basketball for kids who are in high school. Lots of college coaches come and they watched and he done it the weekend before down in South Dallas Duncanville. And their matchups have been up in Kansas, we’re, we’re great. I mean, they they were challenged, they ended up finishing two into one team they had faced twice that they beat once and then the last two later, and, but it was it’s so good for the development of this program for them to have that kind of that kind of setup. And it’s, it puts them into a real game environment and the boys worked hard. So it was it was a lot of fun. And it’s always good to get out of town with any family member where you’re kind of forced to, to sit the car talk come up with funny subjects laugh. So it’s, you know, I’m really fortunate with both my kids to have good road trips.

Exactly. And and you guys are sitting there talking, you know, he’s not on his phone. You know, Which you see that a lot where they put the iPad in the back and everything you know, so we do the same and it’s like whenever we do road trips, it’s you realize because you know me I hate to dry Yes, but I have kind of grown a little more fond of it because you get to sit there and talk.

Yeah, undivided attention will not back was hurt then on the way back so gauge gauge was kind of forced to drive and I couldn’t even look down and look at my phone so it’s perfect. But now we had a great trip and then Bree actually stayed in town because our youngest son, he had a basketball tournament. But here’s the crazy thing. You know that I live in a small town or just outside a small town of 5000 people. Bree was a part of this new concert series that happens indicator that they were just now starting to implement. And they had a large music act by the name of Stoney the room who came to downtown Decatur. We only have 5000 and change that claim that they live in Decatur proper. They had over 6000 people on the square. Just to watch this. Watch this. That’s so awesome. It was awesome. They did a great job of promoting it bringing everybody downtown so it’s It’s like a lot of Americana. They’re kind of trying to revitalize the old square and the bringing the community together. So they did a great job of pulling some people downtown. That’s awesome. That’s pretty sweet. So what about you and the kids?

Well, okay, so last week’s show, I said the both kids were playing in Florida for clays for clay court nationals. Right. And so Carla had just like, I think the day that we’re doing the show, she just lost the day before. So she was out. Luke is actually ended up doing real, real good. He got six place out of 256 of the best national tennis players in the country. And he was the youngest, which is, you know, proud of them. And what was really cool is that Carla was there the whole time? But she’s good enough now that she can warm Lucas up. So she was Lucas’s warm up partner. Nice. So yeah, so I thought that was really, really cool. So last night, so they came in on Sunday. And last night, they started asking me about the show, which I think is really, really kind of fun. So Carla goes, you know, what do you say about me tomorrow Like, I don’t know it’s good point I hadn’t been within a week. She’s like, I want Lucas up. So I’m like, okay

there’s something I could not do. Don’t ask me to do No,

no, you know it’s impossible. The balls just fly by. And then Lucas other that’s pretty cool. Because remember how last week you’re talking about how the weeds grow everywhere and he goes I found a YouTube channel called great big story just random stuff but it’s really well done that like 4 million subscribers or whatever Okay, there was a story on that he said talk about this. I thought was so interesting. And we’ll get I want to get chef Patrick’s take on a couple of these things. But it is a harvard law professor who dropped out or just quit after practicing law just said now I’m kind of done with this became a forger, so to speak. She became a weed expert. Okay. And she just goes around collects weeds and she takes them to the finest Michelin star rated restaurants in New York City where these chefs do amazing thing with weeds. And remember last week, we were talking about the fact that these weeds grow they, they have more seeds, they grow in inhospitable environments, they have all these different Sure. We’re probably looking at a lot of food that we could be dabbling in, but I’m not encouraging everybody to run out and start eating everything in your yard. Yeah, remember that? Remember the story of into the wild, right? The Alexander Supertramp, who happened to eat something I think was bear garlic instead of the wild garlic, which was listed on the same page of the book Indiana dying in a school bus in the wilderness of Alaska. But

yeah, so that movie The book is really great, actually.

Yeah, it’s been interesting. They made a book out of that.

I think that the book in the actually was an article in outdoor magazine and then it was became a book and then it became a movie but yeah,

besides that, what was that lead that you said that you that you read about?

Okay, so yeah, there’s so many edible plants, but I mean, a lot of them require special preparation. There’s one in Texas called Polk salad. It’s kind of like a silver dollar weed. The problem is, you have to boil it like five times, boil it, drain it, boil it, drain it, boil it, drain it before it doesn’t make you sick. And it ends up just being another boiled green. But my question is always how you get to that point? I mean, how many children did you make sick before? Oh, gotta boil it one more time. You know?

Jill sick

Mo. Let’s try jack next to boil more time, drain it and try it again. I never cut. I know. It’s like blowfish. How many sailors on one ship died? Cut it correctly.

Yeah, but me it’s probably an act of desperation. Just to find out what I mean. At some point. You’re kind of forced.

You do. Yeah, I mean, and forging is a big thing now. I’ve been maturing, you know, while hunting wild mushrooms and I know people. It’s actually it’s it’s awesome. But it’s really scary because I don’t know, you know, for me when it comes to mushrooms.

On one of the episodes we had Cooper read on Yeah. So we did a whole episode on how to identify mushrooms. How they grow. That’s fascinating to me what the mycologists I mean, I don’t know how in the world they can get that confident. I think you could study and study and study but then suddenly you’re out on your own going. And that was pretty good. Hey, Billy, why don’t you try that? Make sure that’s pretty good.

You know what’s cool is, is morels have not there’s no other mushroom that looks like them. That’s poisonous. So, you want to have mushrooms? Be sure to learn how to identify Morel mushroom and forget the rest.

And 80 bucks a pound.

It’s better than shopping for

where do you find morel mushrooms? Yeah.

Well, I’m all over the place in Texas. Not so much in North Texas. Maybe Far North Texas, Arkansas, Missouri.

Did you did you know that a lot of Texas mushrooms do KBR remember the Super Collider that they’re going to build? Oh yeah. So the the tunnels that they began to build around here in North Texas the course they didn’t complete it. But there’s these gigantic tunnels well they had to make they made use of them, and they they cultivate and grow time The mushrooms that you get in your grocery stores in the old but you’re kidding Super Collider tunnels. Yes. It’s really awesome. That is awesome.

Very cool to know that

they walk them in and like these big wheels and I mean it’s like the perfect dank no sunlight environment for white mush row

ever since ever since that episode I become so intrigued by mushrooms. There’s even a Netflix special that I watched about mushrooms and how prolific they are. And I mean, all the things that could do you know, I mean, as you know, I’m a big fan of all the research going on with psilocybin right

the micro Janssen and mushrooms are you can’t get them from any other sources.

is amazing. Was that a half hour? I’m looking at the time I’m like, Oh, this is unbelievable. And we Yeah, this is unbelievable. Okay, so coming up next generic Travis from the generic page family talking about

generis ism generis ism there’s there’s there’s it’s all so generic. It’s teach you how to be so generic that you will be invisible. He’ll generically laughter as off, I see the moment

if you’re trying to quit drinking or doing too many drugs, listen to me. You don’t know me and will never meet. I had a problem like you once I drank and used to party a little too much till it got out of control and almost ruined my life. I realized I needed help to fix my problem before it totally destroyed me. If you’ve tried to fix your drinking and drug problem, and you know, you can’t do it alone. You need to call the national treatment advisors, they’ll immerse you into a 30 day program to replace your old habits with new habits and totally change your life. And if you have PPO, private health insurance, the entire program may be covered. fix your problem right now before it gets any worse. Get clean. Call now. And learn more 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800-296-1252 800 to 961252 Are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for a dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last plus lock in your price for two years guaranteed call all American dish your dish Authorized Retailer now 805 70663 to 805 70663. That’s 800-570-6630 offers require credit modification 24 month commitment early termination fee it auto restrictions apply call for details fast track student loans can get your student loans out of default stop any wage garnishments, stop collection calls and stop seizure of your tax refund. Give yourself a break, stop the stress and get your student loan payments down to as little as $25 A month based on what you can afford to pay 800-709-4395 800 709 for 395 800 709 for 395 800 709 for 3950.

Welcome back to the gut check project. We are now joined with Mr. Travis page service page is the generic pharmaceutical representative that we brought on, correct? That’s correct. Okay. Now we’ve just gotten legal permission to show his face.

Well, he’s not he’s not that generic. He’s got some other cool stuff going on. That’s how you and I originally met, you had these you had these cattle, they weren’t doing anything that that they were supposed to. And I said, we’ll go ahead and tell me the breed and it goes, Well, they’re called coriana. And I’m like the Mexican cattle. Dude. dipwad espanol. So I went to Yeah, I went through his ranch and I had a little a little discussion. I was like, Oh yeah, me dies.

That’s how we got him in line.

I never thought about speaking Spanish. I don’t speak Spanish, but they’re Mexican cow.

I needed you to come over and help me out.

Once we got him in line, I was like, Hey, I got a great idea. I helped you. Why don’t you come to my office and bring lunch occasionally?

That that’s how that works.

Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, that’s really all there is. I mean, some almost not nice. What would you say? 97% of pharmaceutical rep started in the cattle industry. Oh, that is

it’s much lower than that.

way off. Bad was stats and math and so on the show.

Well, we get now that we have somebody from the from the pharmaceutical industry, we kind of wanted to have Travis kind of weigh in on some of the articles that we’re going to discuss today and in the science corner, from Dr. Brown. So let’s, uh,

so yeah, I’ve done it yet normal travels. What I’ll do sometimes is I’ll take a really kind of a cutting edge article, and take a deep Dive but there’s several different studies that pertain to our previous shows. So I just want to kind of gloss over it. I’m gonna, I’m gonna let Travis decide which one we’re going to talk about first. Oh, alright.

So very important to you mean just pick one of those pages your own. Are you going to

get some kind of description first, actually, do you want to hear about the tie between the gut microbiome and a potential way to help people with ALS? amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is Lou Gehrig’s disease, and it’s choice. choice number one, choice number two. Would you like to hear the previously discussed Kenny’s restaurant poop transplant story? choice number two, choice number two or choice number three out of a Canadian university, they’ve been able to identify and produce molecules and This the hemp plant that are actually 30 times stronger than aspirin for anti inflammatory now you heard Eric talking about his back to be that that CBD was doing something real nice and we may have the molecules three so this this is actually more of a personality test for you to see where you actually land and where where you find is that the generic Travis yeah job is on the line.

Yeah, I I feel like if it’s a personality test the number two with the poop would be like a bad right? So I’m gonna go I’m gonna go I’m gonna go choice one with the gut biome als

gut biome als so study just came out here where they looked at the motor neuron disease ALS. What they have found is that there’s a clue that this horrible condition and we had Brandon brown on last week or his dad died of it, we went into a lot of detail about the just slow progression of it and and you know, we’ve had other people call in that have actually dealt with us So this is what killed Stephen Hawking. They have linked changes in the microbiome that live in our gut. So they have discovered that microbiome will secrete a proper microbiome will secrete nicotinamide a vitamin d3. And this appears to slow the course of motor neuron disease by improving the function of the muscle controlling neurons in the brain. Now, this is pretty exciting because this is the first time they’ve been able to show how the microbiome will produce a neural protective molecule. And what they showed is that they took some mice and gave them antibiotics, and they no longer produce that. So when we start destroying and dropping bombs and not feeding our microbiome, we don’t produce this. So nicotinamide, you may this may seem familiar to you because we were working with the guys that produce nicotine amide ribonucleic acid Which is a precursor of this. So basically what happens is nicotine amide gets converted to something called a D plus. And this converts food into energy, it repairs DNA. And it helps the circadian rhythm. So all these things, eventually I want to try and get some na D in our box. Sure, but it’s pretty exciting because once again, it comes back to the gut can affect your brain. We’re all about the gut brain access here. And so that was kind of exciting. And we should all think before we just go, oh, take these antibiotics. Take these antibiotics, I’m going to eat this crappy food, because you’re kind of doing some neuro protection every time you eat polyfills every time you improve the diversity of your microbiome.

Yeah, without question, I mean, I think that you can look at there’s two inputs to your brain and its health. One is the obvious. It’s what you’re doing to learn and keep your mind active. But the other thing is just plain and simple. Your rest of your body has to get nutrition from somewhere, and the only way way to get it is to eat and what you eat is going to matter.

And we’ve just shown time and time again that the typical Western American preservative filled the diet, the the pre processed food, it’s just destroying our health. It really is. And then we’re seeing an epidemic of autoimmune disease and everything else, which is why I think everyone has an Endocannabinoid deficiency. We always talked about this. There’s the gastrointestinal system, the cardiovascular system, neurologic system. We all have an endocannabinoid system. I want to be the first board certified Endocannabinoid ologists out there. I think I can because I’ll have to form the whole genre and I’ll just certify myself immediately.

Yeah, it’s gonna be interesting residency for sure.

It will be really interesting. Yeah.

So speaking of that, the other study we’re talking about, which is these guys figured out these two molecules cannot play the nae cannot play them be. What’s interesting to me about this is that they are flavonoids. So in a full spectrum hemp these are the power Females which are also with CBD, everybody talks about CBD. nobody’s talking about all the other molecules that come along with it. We talked about the terpenes, which are the essential oils. And we talked about the flavonoids, which are the polyphenols, right? And what they showed is these can flavor A and B, they provide the anti inflammatory benefit of taking a full spectrum hemp. Interesting and they showed they didn’t show this is what’s even more interesting. They implied that they show that these different molecules are 30 times more effective than taking aspirin by blocking prostaglandins is part of the arachidonic

acid pathway. Okay, yeah. So just for those who may not be completely aware of the arachidonic acid pathway, you start with the prostate gland and it moves down. I think it’s either level one or level two, you get into the cyclooxygenase or the cocs. enzyme, correct? Correct. And that’s where aspirin and those other insides would work. So basically, you’re saying Natural flavonoid will stop or prevent that, that progression down that pathway earlier correct. Exactly. Since Patrick, he has just entered the studio. He’s touching things.

It’s very strange. Oh, he’s adjusting the camera. Sorry, out there. So, so what’s really interesting about this is that there’s you know, there’s big business. I mean, back when I was a resident do was talk about pharma here for a second the people throwing the money at us, or the Cox two inhibitors. Sure. I can’t remember who they were but they got they got pulled off because they were they really are causing heart attacks, stuff like that. Vioxx. Vioxx. Yeah, it was that one I don’t know. But anyways, so just to finish up this article, it was really interesting, because I was like, Wow, this is so cool. And then I went, Oh, these guys didn’t discover this. In fact, it was discovered in 1985 that these molecules did this. What they did is they discovered the enzyme to produce it. So they want to start manufacture Just these two molecules, and they probably want to make it a drug Sure, like they want to do. So this is interesting because we talk all the time that the full spectrum allow mother nature to do her thing. So no offense to the pharma industry, but frequently they’ll find something, go, oh, there’s the molecule doing this, then they’ll manufacture it and hope that it works just as well as in Mother Nature, but we see it time and time again that it doesn’t, you need everything in there to do it. And I did have some fun with this because I went on Reddit and looked at somebody. I recently discovered Reddit about three months ago, and it’s just started reading


I’m like, about this Reddit thing.

Super cool.

What do you do? Why do you find out modems?

I had a quick side note the

Go on. I go on Reddit funny. It’s a pretty good way to start your day just to look at COP arresting a high really high Kid, and I don’t know what happened before. But he goes, the cop looks at him and just goes, I mean, like when they make fun of high people, and they portray him in movies, you’re it man. Oh, man, thanks. Oh, this is front page of Reddit for sure. The cop said it was. So somebody wrote in basically what they were talking about is that it’s been known for a long time that these canif slavens AMD have been able to do this. And the study they were referring to was 1985. But it just kind of implies that this is, you know, the way things go. What’s really cool about it is that there are potentially thousands of other molecules that we have not discovered in these plants. I mean, it’s such a complex plant, which is why I think it does so many things. So that’s article number two. article number three is I get asked all the time by my patients about fecal transplants and so you take somebody’s poop, stick it in somebody else. And a lot of my CBOE patients, a lot of my irritable bowel patient always asked that randomized trial came to the conclusion that now it’s not any better than placebo. So there we go.

Taking somebody else’s poop does not help irritable bowel.

Hey, just out of curiosity, that particular study how big was it? And are you? Do you think the methods were an effort to be just totally conclusive on that element?

No, I’m sure it’s not and I don’t remember let’s say I got off of that. How big was that? I’m only curious because we’ve seen in the past that sometimes you can hundred and 75 people recruited. Okay. 75. Now, that being said, it’s like all things. I mean, some you know, other people would go ahead and critique this. So they took the capsules, the frozen poop. Okay, so some would argue is it you know, is it actually working to take the frozen food capsules Do you have to go in and do this? So do you remember, quick side note we, a few years ago, we were interviewing we had this Yale gastroenterology fellow. We took him out to eat and he was considering joining us and his research. was on fecal microbial transplants. So taking mice, so what they would do is take a skinny mouse and a fat mouse and they would swap and see what happened with the chicken fat mouse give it to a skinny mouse. And they were showing that fat mice started to lose weight after getting the fecal transplant. But skinny mice gained weight. So while he’s telling us this, as you can see, I have a habit of talking about poop and restaurants. Yeah, our waitress was like, What? Hold on explain that. And he goes into more detail is like, yeah, we’re going to publish this and it’s really exciting. She’s like, he goes, you ever thought about how they’re fat families? Is it genetics? Or are they sharing their poop once you live with somebody long enough, whether you like it or not, you’re sharing poop. And it’s just the living with somebody. And so she just goes, Oh, my God and looks over in the water boy is like six 420 stop and was that just became the sexiest man in this restaurant? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he did. So So anyways, Brigham Young University just came out where they actually did a fecal microbial transplant study on weight loss. They actually took humans and so it was small study, but it actually did not show that it improved the weight loss. I had a patient that did a microbial transplant from her sister. And she ended up getting the same diseases as her sister, though. She developed acting and hypothyroidism and put on weight.

It’s really interesting, though, because I think that even united whenever that study first came out from Brigham Young it was that there probably are still some environmental or extrinsic controls that they probably weren’t measured, because did the fecal transplant actually have number one time to change the habits or the desires of the person who had it? I don’t know. It just seems like there’s a lot of different facets whenever you’re talking about essentially a human in the wild of the Western civilization and, and all of the different offerings that you can have for food sources that cetera Yeah, can be reversed.

So a thought from generic pharma guy. Oh, nice. Yeah. So I’m gonna really have to not be digging my scene to ingest somebody else’s put. That’s all I’m telling you. Seems like there would be a lot more negative than positive to that right?

Or Well, well, I think that there’s so much science coming out on the microbiome. We don’t know what to do with it. And there’s a lot of people who are really desperate. I think

you’re on an island. I think most people are totally into having someone else.

Do you think that? We took a poll?

I don’t know. See, this is what he brings up a good point. Maybe my sample size is way too small. Maybe I need to ask more people than just myself.

Okay. That was a no pun intended, right your sample size.

I’m glad someone’s pick it up.

After I’ll Phoenix on Friday.

Obviously Travis does not work for a Mexican restaurant.

That’s awesome. Yeah, but I know it’s a Believe it or not, it’s it’s a topic of a lot of scientific inquiry right now. Yeah, microbial transplants the microbiome What’s going on? I mean, this is people not ever since the advent of the phone. I see more pictures of people’s poop I’m I don’t need to just keep it right there don’t know I you can. I’ve got the good imagination. I imagine.

That is interesting know and we do get asked about that quite a bit at the at the procedure clinic about what do you know about fecal transplants, but I think there’s still tons left to discover if it’s

well, and then it’s so it’s the brakes have been put on it because just recently that study came out with people died. Yeah. Two people died from getting a fecal transplant. Because the there was a bacteria in

it. Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. I mean, there’s that negative outweighing the positive there, right? Because there’s so much negative I mean, it’s waste right?

Right. Well, yeah, so technically, that’s true. But there’s it has your microbiome and it has a lot of dead things, it’s a ton of waste in it. And you know, poop is extremely complex, we don’t really quite understand what to do with it or how to make it better. But we do know that your microbiome is your genome within your genome, we need to start treating that accordingly. Give it what it wants, you start having a high processed food, high sugar food, you’re going to have bacteria that are going to proliferate more, and they will start sending signals to your brain to ask for more of that. So are you in control? Or is your bacteria in control of you? That’s the interesting thing.

Yeah, it definitely is we have any other

No, no, that’s, that’s, we did. We did technically four quick studies today. Just and they all just came out. Like, right now. I gotta like commit to one and do a deep dive on it. But we were able to kind of cover the cover the basis right there. Wow, that is quite a gamut. Well,

Travis, welcome to the show.

Thank you guys for having me.

So you were born in Carrollton, Texas. Correct. Yes, sir. And currently now, and of course, we’re all teasing, but we can’t or you’ve asked not to totally reveal exactly what pharmaceuticals that you represent or which company that you’re with. But that won’t prevent us from talking about the journey to get to where you are now.

Sure. So let’s, let’s go ahead and clarify. We’re making fun of it. But the reality is, is that the pharmaceutical industry has been under fire for the last, you know, decade or so sure that that the regulations, what can be said what you can be represented, have really been ratcheted down. And so part of the fun I want to do today is talk about my journey as the doctor where there was no limit free for all it was a free for all, to now where you’re like, No, you can’t say anything. And I can’t bring you anything and we can’t do anything and everything’s under tight regulations. Oh, it’s morphed a lot. I mean, definitely over the last three decades. It’s probably not a recognizable profession, what it was 30 years ago, compared to what it is now.

Yeah. So there’s a There’s a guy that that I worked with on the primary care side that

will just call him ACL. Right? And he was 60 something years old. He’d been through. He’d made it through like eight different layoffs over the course of his career, right? I mean, just could not kill this guy. And he was a fixture every Wednesday, he’s in this particular office, right? And, you know, just asking him and talking to him about what the industry was, like, 30 years ago, when I came into it. I mean, you know, I missed out on on all of that. Right? And, you know, it’s, it’s the only sales job, really, that I can think of where it’s not okay to take your customer to dinner, or take your customer out for a drink or out to play golf or whatever the scenario might be. I mean, you know, one of my best friends is family owns a PVC pipe manufacturing company, right? They live on that they live on entertaining their customers. I mean, it’s expected. Right?

And isn’t that funny because doctors now are so scared. Especially what’s happened to some hospitals, doctors and hospitals and stuff that if you own if you do anything in medicine, I do not want I do not want to take any money from you. I do not want to. I feel like a, like a high level college recruit. Yeah. But you just like know what I will pay for my own, you know, and because there’s so much fear on the doctor and where it’s like, Look, are you being influenced? And the reality is there was a lot of money to influence people’s behavior. And that’s what that’s why the regulations came around. Is it right? Is it wrong? I don’t know. But

well in that in that all of the training and everything you get as a rat now is all very patient focused, right? It is it is all about presenting a case and painting a picture of a particular patient that needs help. And that’s really our job at this point is to go get in front of this somebody that has the capability to improve somebody’s life, right by writing a prescription or doing a procedure or whatever the case may be, and just painting that picture of the patient that they see on a daily basis, but maybe get lost in the shuffle or that they don’t recognize and try to paint a picture of how that patient suffering and how you can help them.

So I mean, I won’t say the company name, but I’ve been doing clinical research for a lot of different pharmaceutical companies. And I work with a lot of scientific liaison. So you guys have some really smart PhDs that are really trying to work this out. So there’s, there’s all different kinds of views of what this industry is and what it was what it’s become. And everybody, the insurance companies have a view of it. The patient has a view of it, the doctor has a view of it, the company and there’s so much there’s so many moving parts that are continually moving. So if a drug company or Research Division of the drug company has a pretty good product. If it doesn’t look like it’s going to be a home run. It was just a recent pharma startup where they’re looking at something in cannabis. And the phase three clinical trial was looking bad. And somehow it got leaked, their stock plummeted 81%. On this, the rumor that the trial wasn’t going well.

Yeah, it’s crazy because he almost your stockholders and industries like that you’re always betting on the future. It’s never on the present value of what I mean, are they delivering a good service or what have you, they have so much weighing on that. In fact, if I remember the number correctly, you may be able to correct me or it’s probably grown since then. But the late 90s we were told the stat and that was that. So much of the money in the United States of America, pharmaceutical industry is strictly to stave off the costs of r&d, and the elements that go into that to move that product. So what we were told is that before one RX is sold of any it doesn’t matter all comers is sold. That over 1.4 billion. dollars had been invested industry wide to create through both the failures, the trials, the experiments, the development of a set drug that would come with every lineage. You You yourself even said they had started with a study back in 85. And now they’re trying to find an enzyme to do something. Well, we’re, we’re 30 years removed from that. So over that time, how many people have spent time reading that article? And so this is an aggregate of all of the time and all the research that goes into this an avenue where we can improve either an outcome or what have you, it’s just a lot of money. And on top of that, before you can turn a drug out to somebody, you’ve got to go through at least three phase clinical trials and then move into the fourth where the consumer Well, I will say that as Travis you’re here because, number one, you’re a typical for a drug Rep. So how in the world like what’s your journey, man? We’re just start. How’d you end up here?

Yeah, so it’s it’s really not that complicated. I’m plan to be here a lot sooner than then I was. I mean, I’m a

third show doesn’t start till

I was around on time for that. Yeah. So you were talking about my journey, right? So I’m a third generation sales guy. When my dad went through school, when he came out, it was all about computers, software and hardware, right? When I was in school, it was all about the pharmaceutical industry. And so it was my ambition, right to to be in sales. It’s all I’ve ever done. I don’t care if it’s my high school job, my college job, it’s always been involved in sales. So I knew that’s what I was going to do and the hot the hot job to have come, you know, back in 1999 was coming into the pharmaceutical industry. And, you know, I went to a small State University, which was a mistake, right, a great experience great education, but just not allowed a lot of alumni support for job Right after you get out of school, you know, and at that point I thought I was going to be a, I thought I was going to be a pro athlete, right? Because we all do when we’re when we’re 18 or 19. And so when I discovered that I wasn’t going to be right, I tried to get into the the job market, what was the sport? So I rodeoed in college, and, you know, I thought that that was going to be

your second college. rodeo. Yeah, scholarship person that we’ve had on the show. What are

the odds? That’s a show 18 we’ve had to I mean, that’s the only hint percent Yeah, so Hendrickson was our other one

Robo. That’s right, Robo.

So what what did he competed? What was this event? Mostly badass hurry. Oh,

yeah, he was. He was a think he was a bronc rider. He was a professional boat.

bronc rider. I think he was a bronc rider. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So that’s what I did. But it was very evident that I was not going to be professional at it by the

National rodeo person like what are the skills and yeah

so basically you’re you’re you’re willing to put your money forward and go on the road

have absolutely zero sensitivity in the male nether region there such a big

jump into play as much as people think that it does.

Somebody runs up and just kicked

off the TV a lot

of people a lot less people sign up if

that were the case.

Yeah, no, I mean, it’s it’s really a you know, it’s it’s, it’s one of the few sports in the world where there’s no contract, there’s nobody paying you unless you win. So you got to be able to put the bill to go compete. And then you’re, you know, basically sustaining yourself with whatever you win. So if you don’t win, it’s not sustainable is basically what the deal is. So, you know, the first job interview I had a college was with Copenhagen school, right? Okay, and So I go down to the office there and Lewisville used to be on Main Street there in Lewisville. And I go in there and I’m talking to, I’m talking to this gentleman. And it’s a sales job and I just promotional job and I get to go on the road all these rodeos and stuff and promote Copenhagen school. And I’m like, Man, this sounds fantastic. I said, so how are you guys health benefits? It goes, Yeah, we don’t have that we pay like seven and a half. I don’t

know company. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Your initial and you know, we’ll take jobs coming out. I mean, you have to eat. So did you have any issues taking a job that actually is harmful to society?

Yeah. So in when you’re 18 or 19, it are more associated it with cowboy than I did is it harmful, you know, and as you as you grow up and mature, you realize that that’s a, you know, not a great thing, you know what I mean? But at 18 or 19 I just associated with being able to be

look at look at the advertising they were doing then. For your for your peers. That’s sexy to be doing Copenhagen school

started def and when I was 14 years old. I’m 42 today Today stit Not not today man.

Patrick and Libya quick and everything day.

I wish it was my as long as it’s a mud pie we


so no, they definitely marketing. I mean all you know, your wall karason everything I mean you to be cowboy you had to dip snuff, you know, at least I thought that when I was, you know, in middle school, you know what I mean? So yeah, I would not. I would not do that today.

Well, it’s fascinating because now you’re you’re essentially in health care. Yes, I’ll say it again. Your products help my patients so you’ve come full circle with that one.

Definitely. And that’s that is that is the most gratifying part of what I sell, is that, you know, unsolicited, Patients will see you in a waiting room. And with this particular product that I’m selling now, I mean, it’s a lifesaver, right? So, like literally, so a patient comes up to me this is not a month ago, in the waiting room and says, you know, Hey, thank you for doing what you do. You saved my life going, I didn’t save your life. Right? But it makes me feel good to think that I, you know, made a case for that patient advocated for that patient in front of a physician that you know, soffit to put this patient on that product and you know, their life is improved because that in some dramatic way. So that’s the big deal. Well, Travis,

that was, believe it or not, you just did your first half hour with us on the gut check project. We got a whole nother hour to go with Travis. We’ve got tons of really cool stories about the pharmaceutical industry. We’ll be back here in four minutes.

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Welcome back. It’s our number two gut check project Episode 18. I’m Erica, you’re here with your hosts Ken Brown. And of course today we have the generic pharmaceutical rep. Travis page real quick. Don’t forget to like and share gut check project, go to search gut check project, then be certain to subscribe and then tell a friend then go to gut check. go to contact or connect. Let us know that you did it. You’ll be entered into the contest where this month next week, we give away at least five signature pack. Whoa.

Travis, you know what the signature pack is.

I’ve heard you talk about this, but it changed all the time.

two cans of Copenhagen.

That’s good for your patience. I’m

glad that sounds

better than that. It’s gonna be a month supply about Tron teal and KBB CBD paired together and you get to choose your flavor. You like natural, natural if you like sentiment, good sentiment.

So it’s kind of like Copenhagen, right? You choose your flavor. Yeah.

Yeah. Signature package kinda like Copenhagen being sure let us know. Thanks a lot, Travis for coming on. You’re a great salesman.

Travis this. I always have gutsy here as a reminder, ever since the invention of the of the phone. It’s done wonders for my hemorrhoid business. And that’s why. So this is my public service announcement. Don’t read it in poop. Because you get hemorrhoids. Yeah, that’s public service announcement. I just liked the fact that Friday no frogs use toilets. This is weird. That’s gutsy. That’s our mascot.

Yeah, it’s it’s cool that he can also articulate his his hand to a phone. And he uses the potty but you know, either way, I guess is what Indians do nowadays. Because that’s what they’re into. Everybody’s evolving. Everybody is evolving. Speaking of evolving, so Travis, you had quite a change from you went to and you didn’t mention it earlier, but I believe you said that you went to Stephen F. Austin, correct? Yes. f Austin State University down in Macedonia, East Texas. And currently now you live in Krum which is just west of Denton, Texas, correct? Correct. And you did not leave your team roping skills behind is part of your history. You just want to grow and expand on that. You have an area that you do that no,

yeah. So the you know, I wrote Bronx in college and we always thought the time to vent guys were kind of the sissy guy. Right, you know, and it just turned out that they were the smarter ones, right? It really it really does turn out that way. You know your career is prolonged quite a bit you know when your mounts not trying to put you on the ground and hurt you, you know so um it uh you know it’s very much considered to be an old man type thing by the by the rough stock guys well now I fit that bill right so I have zero shame about about team opening is actually extremely complicated and I’m really I’ve learned something new every time I go about it so it’s you know some guys fish some guys play golf I’m you know, I’m a pharmaceutical rep by trade but you know, My hobby is team roping

how many days a week do you do team rope or do you work on it?

Yeah, so it’s it’s tough right? Because of you know, all the resource that you need to actually practice I mean, I have a you know, a dummy, if you will, that I can rope that stationary that I can do by myself all the time, but to actually get rigged up and get on a horse and and have the live cattle, the rope I mean, that’s a big

Strictly the rope.

Yeah. So, uh, this, we just built a house last year. Um, but before that I was on a rental property that actually had the facility, a ropin pin on it. And so we would bring cattle lease them basically to this facility, but we didn’t have a lot of space. Sure. So, you go online and you start trying to leave least these Korean a cattle? Well, they want to lease 100 of them. Well, we don’t have space for 100 right. So we needed five to 10 that don’t

think it’d be a whole lot easier if he had the hundred in that same space. I mean,

he’ll do it.

I’m not going fishing.

For the targets. You just need one target. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That would get really complicated in a hurry though. That would be a lot of moving parts. But anyway, so we figured out that, you know, there’s more For this for you know the small group of cattle so my idea was on my little place to raise five and there’s all these you know always have five babies on the ground that would mature and be able to be leased out to somebody a facility and you drive up and down three at you know you’re from Decatur you know what I’m talking about, there’s all these little farm and ranch is there. And a lot of them have team roping pen. So they do you know, and and, and they’re all smart. They’re not hundreds of acres right there. They’re eight to 10. So not a lot of space to keep a bunch of cattle. So that was my idea. So I got it. And just like everything else I get myself into, it’s a little more complicated than what I initially thought, you know. So I’ve been going on this for like, I don’t I think this is my fourth year and raising the kids. Yeah, yeah. So I started out with two mama cows. And my idea was to breed them and then turn out babies. Well, you can only there you can only keep them permanently if they’re female, right because that’s the only way to make more cows right is to have female so If you have males that doesn’t grow your herd, you know what I mean? Because you can’t breed them back to each other and that kind of thing. So it’s, it’s been an endeavor. Right. So we’re in the we’re in the process, but yeah, that’s another aspect of the hobby. I guess.

So, do you have like a Korean dating app? So that?

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I have a buddy right? Korean table down the road. So you know, every, every winner, I’ll take them on a date. I load them all gals in the trailer, and we take them on a on a date over at my buddy’s place

for them to swipe right now.

There’s only one so they

want a choice.

on a on a quick side note, we’ve talked about this before that when you have too many choices. There is a psychologist that did a site psychological study where people could choose as many types of jams that they wanted. And they had like 40 different kinds, but and you could bring them back if you didn’t like Or they could choose between like three. And he showed that the people that had more choices were less happy with their choice or with their decision. And the other ones didn’t. That’s exactly what I think dating apps are. I think you should download an app and you go you have one of two choices. There you go. This guy that guy, you pick it and I think people would be happier person.

I don’t have any experience with it

at all. I not one time Have I ever had it? I’ve always had you know what I’m saying? The natural the old fashioned way. Right. So I don’t even know what this means. This online. Anything? I don’t I don’t get it. I never participated in it.

Oh, so you like I mean, like, like the old way like, like, OK, Cupid or

original apps like I see you in a bar. Right? Yeah. And I say something funny, you know, and then we dance and then we have a beer and that’s it. You know, the next weekend we go to a movie,

like a real relationship.

Well, yeah, man. But I guess this is a real thing?

Well, no, it’s I mean, my point is how unhappy people are. And I think that because there’s that FOMO there’s always this fear of, you know, something more, it’d be like, yeah, you could choose if you’re driving down, and you know, all these bowls to choose you like with that bowl make better, you know, kids with this way, this way. That’s

an interesting concept. What if, if back before social media, if people think of everything you give up to put your profile on a dating app? I mean, not only do you have, how you aesthetically look, but you begin to say your name or your first name, I assume? Sometimes I do they ever ask if you dig a little bit deeper, what your occupation is, what at least what your hobbies are, but if you just had to wear a shirt that just said your name, and then your hobbies, and where you’re from, and like, what area you live in, and then you were in a bar, and then you began to weed out people before you ever got to know them just based on what their hobbies weren’t. It was printed on their shirt, they would be it would have made things just a dating shirt when you compare the hobbies of everybody in there, and probably not be satisfied with the fact that you may not find somebody who likes team roping. And it just because it wasn’t listed on there. So the FOMO comes from, I’m looking at all this and I’m not saying my hundred percent match here of these small biographical details,

but they’ve done I mean, there’s a whole lot of evidence that we are not becoming happier as a society. In fact, depression is, is huge, which is why I think things like psilocybin are going to make a big difference. Probably, all these drugs and everything, probably just putting the phone down for a little bit. It’s a great way to, to reconnect and reset, which is what I like about what you do is your hobby, you you’re with nature, you’re interacting. That’s awesome.

Well, in the you know, the contrast is my 11 year old son, I just turned 12 He’s 12 years old now, but you know, he is so not interested in that aspect of my life. And when I was growing up, I would have killed because I didn’t have it. You know what I mean? It was all indirect. It was a Jason To me, it was, you know, the influence was all from my mom’s side of the family. But it was everybody had kind of moved past it. So I, you know, when I got into it, I kind of got into it on my own. So I would have loved my dad to be involved in something like that and my son. He’s a baseball player. He’s just not, but he’ll pick up that phone all day. You know what I mean? He’ll be on that PlayStation all that you know, that’s, it’s just completely different from when my experience when I was growing up,

totally. Can you explain exactly. We’re saying team roping? You know, I’ve never watched it. I don’t know. Just tell me what you do.

Okay, so I’m on the I’m on the head side, right. So it says set up this way. There’s a, a shoot in the middle where the cow is deployed, right? And on either side of that shoot, there’s a box. So the cows deployed it gets a head start right. And then it’s basically a horse race, right. So the guy on one side is responsible for roping the horns. The other guys responsible on the other side for coming behind. And roping the feet. And then you you Dally off to your saddle horn and kind of stretch tight for a split second, they drop a flag and that’s your time. So it’s a time to have an animal isn’t hurt. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. So there’s a lot of controversy surrounding what they call tie down roping. Where they use calves, right? Oh, where they flip them over. Yeah, yeah. So there’s a there’s a lot of controversy and not just the way it looks. I think team roping is a lot less shocking. But you know, the bottom line is that there’s all kinds of, of regulation and that kind of thing to make sure that the animals are taken care of. And I’m telling you this those horses, I would if I could come back to something I want to be a high end horse of some performance horse of some nobody lives better than a high

performance. I did have a I had a friend family that They bred What do they call cutting horses? Big, big, big money, big money. And they those they had stables that were just unbelievably nicer in

your house. Yeah, no doubt.

So that’s your hobby. How did you end up in the industry that you’re in now being a pharmaceutical representative? So you left SFA This is 99 you graduated? It’s 2019. So what’s going on?

So the the door to this industry was not open to me. Okay. When I graduated, um, my first job out of school, the first job that I took was with a pager company. Okay, I’m dating myself. You guys remember pagers? Right? Yeah, so this is just before the technology of texting on your phone. Sure. So the pager had advanced the point where you would, that’s how you would text right it had a keyboard on it, not kind of thing. So I would go business to business. go up and down floors of an office building in Fort Worth selling One pagers, right. Yeah, that I mean entry level sales as entry level sales can get did that for about six months. And then I got into the lumber industry, I mean, still not eligible. So I’ve got, you know, six months of sales experience, right. And as I’m looking, I know, I don’t want to sell pager so I keep an eye out for these pharmaceutical opportunities or medical sales opportunities that might present themselves. And they would have job fairs at a hotel, right? These big Eli Lilly companies, right, these enormous farms to Merck, and all these guys would have these job fairs at a hotel. So I would show up in my suit, not kind of thing. And they would they’ve tangey a sheet of paper that was like your application. And at the very top, it said, I’m one of the one of the requirements was your GPA. And then the other requirement was, you know, the amount of sales experience professional sales experience that you had, and then a lot of them had a requirement performs soon. sales experience. I’m like, man, how do you ever get fired? Don’t ever give me

a think how many industries are like that? That I know. It’s so hard to I don’t know. That’s what that’s what I was trying I mean there’s there’s requirements that D hat where you had to have had prior experience that just about everybody that worked for me, you hire the personality train everything else.

Well and and it’s a you know, that was always my deal right? Anytime I could get in in front of people I, you know, you need me look like

how could you not want me on that you need me on that wall? Right? I’m still saying,

right, right now one of those one of those. One of those catalysts watching this show going, that

ties me up all the time.

I miss a lot. They’re good. They win a lot of the time. They’re good But anyway so so how happened for me? Um It turns out that whatever industry you’re in and I don’t do you guys have any experience in construction any whether it be in college Did you guys ever work for construction company work

for one no work for Legos for a bit does

that count? Yeah

that does not count I’m talking about actually a you know some aspect of the of the building industry is extremely fickle industry Oh show the the highs are really high and the lows are really low. So I went into business with a friend of mine from high school that was building these retaining wall structures when the housing market was just crazy. And we did really well for about 10 years and then the bottom fell out of the construction company I’ll never forget, I came back to work after the Thanksgiving break. And we had six months booked out and one by one that entire day. Everyone called the cancel and it’s the Huge property development company, right? Yeah.

But why did it Why did it happen that quickly? Well, so

what was it? What was it? Oh, wait, yeah. So

when, you know, the bottom just kind of fell

out of the AIG and PMI, interest failure, Dr. Hortons and all those guys, they had to shut down their development,

they canceled everything. And so all of our projects were based on this, this large land development and just one by one that day, we call it D day, to this day that me and the guy. Yeah. So it basically shrunk the company down at that moment to where there wasn’t enough for both of us, right? Well, at the time, I had a buddy that was a district manager at a pharmaceutical company and he was leaving with the powers that be the Vice President, they were all leaving as a group and going to start doing one of the startups that you that you spoke of earlier, right. And so in knowing what I know now, so you don’t know anything you just want In, you just want just somebody let me assure right? Well, this guy had a position in, in North Texas, where, you know, I could work didn’t fly around Lewisville, all these you know my community, right I’m a homeboy. And I’m all man, this is my this is my shot, right? knowing nothing about what I was going to be selling, knowing nothing about who was going to be selling it to what the market was what the managed care was going to be. I knew nothing about this. I didn’t know. I knew I didn’t even know enough to know I didn’t know anything. Sure. Does that make sense? Absolutely.

So I called on the line day.

Not not having to worry because you’re so ignorant.

Ignorant is the perfect so I did I thought I won the lottery.

I’m in. I’m in

right. And so it turns out they took this very old medication and when I say old I’m talking about like a birth of America old medication. So

right so like you said you’re gonna be selling this and it’s a it’s a leech.

So, I’m not

kidding. It was it was almost that bad. And then, so they took this new science of delivery system that took this very old medication and made it once a day.

That was the deal, right?

So the very old medication, if you go to your pharmacy and you don’t have any insurance at all right, you go pay the cash price for it. It’s $4. Okay. But you got to take it three times a day. Sure. Okay, with my medication. It’s $150. But you only have to take it one time a day. That was that was the sale, right? One time a day versus three times a day this delivery, some you know, patient compliance, all this thing. The longer the short is the whole entire company lasted about 18 months. So my first experience in pharmaceuticals was 18 months of this extreme pressure to grow this startup, right, banging your head up against the wall. And then they fired everybody in 18 months.

Oh, I just want to you know, I’ve tried to raise money for are trying to and I’m just trying to figure out what kind of pitch what kind of people invested in this thing. That’s it. That’s a hard course. What were they investing? And probably the delivery system itself. But

yeah, so

they owned the technology, right the parent company owns the technology. And then they basically brought in these, you know, a Salesforce, you know, the higher ups of of Salesforce, your VPS and directors and that kind of thing that had been successful at another company. And they brought the idea was if we bring them all from this successful company, all over as one unit unit, right, then that unit will function for us, right? Well, not if your products crap, right is what is what it boils down to.

That’s, I mean, so that’s, that’s really interesting, because when you’re selling something, and as an I see, I have people that try and sell me things that are inferior to another product that I have available. And it’s like, Why in the world would I even consider this?

And so the question is, when they try to sell you something that just doesn’t add up. Does it matter to you You if you like that guy or not, if he’s selling it right,

oh, I mean it comes down to first thing is patient care. I mean I don’t want to hurt their pocketbook. Yeah, we can be best friends you can come and hang out. But if you have a crap product, you have a crap product.

And, and that’s the other thing you figure out. And it’s the thing I like about it right is that it is not enough to be a great sales guy, right? It is not enough to be likable. You literally have to have something that is an advantage for the patient something something that’s going to improve their patients lives because that’s

This is why they started all these regulations. Because there was a period there were taking doctors down to Hawaii, yes. On and then suddenly sales would start to increase. The product was Yeah, and and people can say oh, no, that didn’t influence. Oh, yes, it did. Yeah. That’s why that’s why they did it. When I was a resident. They have what was called the zone. hotline. So number you’re broke as a resident and you’re working crazy hours, you could call this number and a pizza would show up. No questions asked from Pizza Hut or one of those places dominoes. And it was the zosyn hotline, you would see. I mean, all of us had access to it. So you would order pizza before you get off so you can take it out and eat because that was that was what you’re going to eat. You realize all of us use those and all of us kept using zosyn after we get out, and probably still would, if I was an inpatient hospitalist.

I mean, that is how you develop a habit.

Yeah, somebody comes up with an infection, that’s the antibiotic I’m going to use. Now. It was an effective antibiotic, but they created a habit in us and that’s a psychological thing that the pharma industry knows me that is a Pavlovian response for you to just know that you want to use Osen because it rewarded not only in helping the patient but you’ve got full I mean, that’s that’s it’s wild, but that’s exactly how it was. You can establish a pattern and a trainee. Really hard to unlearn that because that’s, you’re in a very vulnerable spot you’re in a teaching us but which is why they really don’t allow reps and most teaching hospitals. No,

no, not at all. Yeah. And, you know, we it’s a big battle for us because, you know, when you have a product that that statistically or clinically is superior, right? That doesn’t always matter because of that habit that you’re talking about. Right? They can even agree, yes, that product is better, right? But when it actually comes to writing it for the patient, it’s just not top of mind. Right? So they’ll tell you all the time, man, just keep reminding me keep reminding me keep reminding me right. And it really habit is it? It’s as big obstacle as anything else we face?

Well, so the world you know, I mean, I’m from medicine when we launched optra until that’s what I thought we were going to do. I thought that we were going to have a rap, they would just walk out there and be like, Look, we have this natural solution that has this data and it’s really good. And we could not play In that sandbox at all couldn’t compete with the lunches that were being brought couldn’t compete with the time in front of people where we have to educate. And we learned really quick, that is not the way for us to change habits in gastroenterologists. And we realized that there were other audiences fortunately, we know that nutritionist were really open to hear new things and functional medicine doctors, and we just started to find our niche. And now we’re getting because we stood a little test of time, three, four years now we’re starting to see the gastroenterologist go, oh, it does work. Yeah.

And I had to read it kind of had to reverse engineer the access. So I think that you hit on a really key point and what the role of the pharmaceutical rep does play, and that is you have to have the good ability to maintain solid relationships with folks because even if you have the best message, if you can’t be heard or tolerated with your presence, that message will never be heard by the physician or the intended target. For them to to be educated is Make no mistake about it like it love it. Hate it does it matter the pharmaceutical rep often times for an incredibly busy position is the first level of new or re education and technology. It’s it’s gotten to the point that when people sit there and say, well, there’s no science on CBD or there’s no science, I’m pro anthocyanins. No, I’ve got like 5000 articles on my computer right now. There’s no science on photobiomodulation. Know, it’s that nobody has shown up with a silver platter while you’re taking two seconds to eat and go, Oh, there’s the science. Because nobody, I mean, you’re not looking for the science unless you’re doing research or doing a report or doing something like that. Well, that blazed by I really want to get into some funny stories that Travis may have encountered. And you also might have something to add to the story. We could have a little bit of fun so but we could definitely do some comparative analysis on what it was like back in the day that I rolled into being a pharmaceutical rep versus what you’ve dealt with today. So anyhow, stick around last half hour with Travis page will be back here in just a moment. Projects Episode 18

Dr. Ken brown here host of gut check project and with my co host Eric Rhaegar. Eric we’ve been seeing Mojo guys over there and over here Tony talking about altran to for bloating I’ve seen in my practice that I’ll try and tell us a whole lot more than just the building product.

Yes, it does a whole lot more than just fixed bloating because of the polyphenols that you find can altantuya

you’re exactly right. The polyphenols are those molecules that we find in the Mediterranean diet. It makes the vegetables and fruits very colorful. What are some of the things that these polyphenols do Eric these Polly females can actually stop inflammation

we can help you have more energy, they can help you with anti aging and polyphenols are great for athletes.

It sounds like it’s going to help a whole lot more people than just loading tell me how everybody should be taking outruns here. If you want to know I’ll try to it’s two

capsules three times a day basically with your meals but if you aren’t bloated and you just want that type female and take every day to three capsules a day will work for you

go to love my slash spoonie

Dr. Kim brown here host of gut check project with my co host Eric Rhaegar. I’ve seen in my practice that I’ll try and tell us a whole lot more than just a building product.

Yes, it does a whole lot more than just exploding because of the polyphenols that you find in Asante. What are some of the things that these polyphenols do air these probably females can help you have more energy and polyphenols are great for athletes.

It sounds like it’s going to help a whole lot more people than just load and go to La slash spoonie

Are you tired of high cable TV rates sign up for a dish today and get a $500 bonus offer while supplies last plus lock in your price for two years guaranteed. Call all American dish your dish Authorized Retailer now 805 six 76630 805 76630 that’s 800-570-6630 offers require credit modification. 24 month commitment early termination fee ID auto pay restrictions apply call for details.

Dance to this Yeah.

Yeah, yep. Like you were here to blow up or something.

You just have not lost that rough side. Back when you were busting the Bronx. It’s okay. You could show your feminine side dance a little bit.

Man Oh,

yeah, I’m good on that.

Sorry, the last half hour of Episode 18 to get Jake project and what we were talking about the break we wanted to get straight to it. We’ve got some funny or some. I think they’re funny, some good humorous tales of what it’s like to be on both ends of the pharmaceutical representation side. And Ken, I’m just gonna go ahead and kick it to you because I’ve heard the story before. And I kept looking forward to you retelling it but not Travis in on

Yeah. So don’t don’t get your hopes up but it’s not that funny. It’s just it’s a it’s a good depiction of what went on when there was no rains on the on the pharma industry. So I was a resident in San Antonio and I have a I had the three friends that were pretty successful at the time Keith Jr. Brian, Brian was running one of the first internet casinos which signed out really quick he came to me when I was a fourth year resident and said hey, I need you to come down to Curacao with me defer residency and help me start this internet casino. And I was like this internet thing you talking about? That’s gonna go away. But needless to say, not a not a smart business move on my part but and jr was playing ball for the for the San Francisco 49 years at the time, and so I’d go visit him and it would just, you know, he just take us out and we’d have fun drivers driving us around and it was just great time hanging out with players and stuff. Go visit Brian and it’s in Curacao and same thing. You know he’s got everything set up for me with a guy showed up. He was living on the beach where there’s beautiful coral reef guy shows up wakes me up and he goes Are you can said yeah, he goes Come on, Brian says I’m taking you scuba diving and I’m like I’ve never been He’s like, it’s not that big of a deal. Just going to go up, go down, breathe in, breathe out. So, and, you know, Keith, still living in Omaha at the time and former roommate and he was working when I was in med school, so he took care of a lot. So I’ve got all this pressure. These guys are gonna come visit me in San Antonio. I’m broke. I’m like, how do I show these guys a good time. So Viagra had just launched. And I was friends with the Viagra ramp. And they had big pockets that was Pfizer. Pfizer initially started with their clinical trials so that Viagra would become they were trying to work out a blood pressure medicine. I don’t know if you do the whole story behind that. I did.

Yeah. Well, I’ve been told since. Yeah, absolutely.

So basically Phase Three clinical trials, the blood pressure wasn’t dropping all that much when people returned the medicine, it was very distinct that most of the men did not return it. They’re like what’s going on here? So then they had to bring them all back in and went, Okay, we are not going to save lives via blood pressure. But we’ve learned a new thing that this drug does do. Then it became the little blue pill. And at the time, that became just, I mean, they could I’ve talked to reps, they’re just like, Man, you just you were there. I mean, absolutely. you’d walk in and they would kick other reps out. And I’d be like, come, come, come, come on in. And so that in mind, I call him up. And he goes, man, just set up a whole day. I’ll handle it. I’ll show up at every location and pick up pick up the tab. So I’m like, okay, we’re gonna do lunch here. And so he shows up. He’s like, What’s up guys meets everybody gives his credit card goes, I’ll see you at the golf course. Then we went to LA cantera golf course. He was waiting. There he goes, What’s up guys? Come on in and just covers everything. Getting off your sleeves, a balls, rentals, the whole nine yards. We’re gonna put some drinks on on the card now and just covered everything. And he was telling when you guys are done where do you plan on having dinner? I was like thinking you’re a Papa sceetos He’s like, I need you there. So we play a whole round of golf. La cantera is beautiful and it was definitely had a great day we go to Papa sceetos. Then he shows up. He’s like, you guys have a good day, guys. Yeah, thank you so much, really appreciate it, picks up the tab the whole thing, then goes out to his truck comes back in and gives all of us a case of Viagra. This was 2999 Yeah, it was a long time ago, I was still a resident I wasn’t a fellow yet. And so during your, you know, case of I mean, you know, you’re you’re young enough you’re just like I had, in fact, I got too many of the thing that this thing happens or causes so

That’s what I need.

Then you realize that you’re walking around with gold for any of any of my friends or friends, dads and stuff like you got what?

Like to say same thing he takes it back to the niners is like man, I don’t know get this thing supposed to do that. And so there’s some you know some other players on the team were like yeah, so we did that whole day and we had so much fun and we bonded. These are friends I’ve had since childhood and to this day, it’s referred to him as San Antonio, and I got that I did a lot more than that, though. But I think that’s a great example of the liberties that drug reps had at that time. Oh, that’s definitely before the pharma pact.

Oh, absolutely. It was initiated. I mean, I think that is 2001 or something like that, where basically the Big Pharma groups got together and that’s really at the very, I guess the 25% mark or 30% mark of me working In the pharmaceutical industry too, and that’s when things change. So when I was a drug rep, I kind of fell into it. I wanted to get into research and sharing ended up bringing us on, and they ended up having to reallocate where we were because they were losing the patent on clarity. And so the idea of them paying for us to go into research, they were like, Look, we don’t really have a job for you there anymore. But if you’d like to be a drug rep, so then I talked to some people that had done it, and I said, I guess I can do that. The biggest selling point was, Eric, you were living out here in London, the easiest thing, you just get up, you find a doctor to make friends with you take him to go play golf. At the time I played a lot of golf was like this is great. So basically, I was being paid to play golf. And we, the territory was huge, but I met a lot of different people. And that’s I was calling on on primary and family practice docs. They don’t get a whole lot of attention by comparison to specialist. So at the time, it was really easy to begin to find somebody in each town and at that time, you’re only coming competing for market share. It wasn’t what I learned was it wasn’t about the script count, or how the volume that I increase it was just what is your market share? And are you increasing in your category? Your share the pie for our business, and that’s, that’s really all it came down to. But I do have one of the funnier stories that happened to me occurred with a guy made friends with him. He was a family practice Doc, an internist, super cool guy. And I liked it a lot. And he was a great doc. And I ended up working. I’d been laid off from sharing I went to go work for Roche and Roche, at the time had just launched two drugs. One was Tamiflu, which is still around today. Great drug, right. And the other one was zinna cow. And you may recall it. The generic name of Ford at the time was orlistat. There’s a, there’s a small composite that similar to called orlistat, I’m sorry, what does it orlistat And anyway, they added to Pringles, I can’t remember what it’s called. Look at it. Yeah, but it regardless, what it did is it blocked the absorption of dietary fat, which is so funny where we are now knowing that fats actually what’s missing from our diet. But this zinna cow was positioned to help people lose weight, they were over consuming fat, and it was going to block approximately one third of the dietary fat from being absorbed. Now knowing what we know now, that’s it. That’s danger written all over olestra That’s right. That’s what the adage of Pringles. So that’s very similar to orlistat. Well, regardless, we were pitched on this idea to take zinna cow out to the masses and say for your patients that want to lose weight, just adds into Cal take it three times a day with your meals and it will prevent the absorption of this high calorie fat and your patients will begin to lose weight. The problem was it wasn’t covered by insurance, so is running well over $100 a month and did we weren’t really trained that Well on the side effects Well, I go to the physician that I had made friends with their in Lubbock. And he said, You know what, I’ll give it a try. And normally when I went in to see him, we’d go back to his office, we’d exchange jokes, laugh a little bit, and he was a busy Doc, he had to go on rest of his day. Well, one day I walked in, probably about the second or third time I had reminded him about using cynical, and as I walk in, he sees me and he’s like, oh, Eric, come here. Let me show you something to like, Oh, cool. It’s probably got a funny little story for me. And he said, Hey, I used zinna cow on some patients. I’m like, great. He’s like, sorta sorta great. He’s like, when were you gonna tell me about the oil?

Oil I’ve

never heard this compound before. Before as oil so Mike,

what is it? He’s like, cool. That’s what I said.

What happens is, he says, I prescribed it and he named off so and so. And I was like, yeah. And he said, So was

this a small enough town that you knew the person

now I didn’t know the person. He just threw out her first name. So he said, so I give it to her. And in Lubbock, there is a grocery store that actually carries on to United, you know, Market Street. He said she is in United. She’s just in the produce aisle, minding her own business shopping away. And she took this in a cow, and will essentially she thought she had a small little fart, Eric, you know what she did? That’s like

I said, I don’t know. She blew oil

all over her pants. And I said, Oh, she did his. Oh, yeah, she did. And he’s laughing You know? He’s like,

what what are you thinking? You’re like, This is my drug.

I’ve got no answers to this. And I’m also like, I’ve been abandoned because no one told me this was going to happen. So he’s he begins to keep talking about, he said, you want to know how I know. I was like, kinda. And so he says, because she hobbled all the way out to the car, so she could take off her ass oil pants. And notice it also gotten into one of her shoes. And she brought them to me in the United sack.

And I looked at him. He’s like, I’m not gonna show them to you. I don’t have

been he said something really funny. He’s like, why don’t you get on the horn and find out what it is we’re supposed to do about this because I can’t keep recommending something that’s going to have this kind of thing. Well, basically, right then, we there was if there was a graph, there’s, we launch, there’s no complaints. It’s flat. It’s flat and flat about five weeks after it launches. Suddenly there’s a spike and its complaints and then We got on a conference call conference call it all Roche everybody represented as an account they said, Don’t worry, you need to instruct all of your physicians that their patients are not losing electrolytes. It’s just fact. So I immediately like we’re supposed to go back into this

okay, if they blow it out

I just immediately played at the scenario of Okay, I’m eating I don’t know, be in a pizza place and all the sudden eyes blow out oil I’m gonna like never use

this is not diarrhea,

nothing to see here.

I’m losing weight

is late loss.

I’m getting healthy and you’re making fun of me. So regardless, that was a really odd scenario and then later on, they basically had to recant their their approach with all of that.

Well, what’s hilarious about that is I was telling you that going to try and find the name of the product that they switch from the drug that the food industry decided if you guys aren’t going to use it, we’re going to use it. Yeah, we’ll make fat free Pringles. And so I googled it and the first thing that comes up is fat free Pringles equals no leakage. Next one, a very disgusting review of Pringles fat free potato chips. These gut wrenching olestra chips are awful

The crazy thing is is now what we know about fat in the in the weight gain in America is once we stopped eating fat I mean it’s there’s a there’s a well known graph that when butter consumption went down, and margarine was created people begin to get heavier.

We weren’t supposed to be blocking fat anyway. So you know, I don’t know it’s it’s really one of the one of the craziest tales where someone in your position and you have you have a much different job now because you’re not calling on primary care but someone in your position back then you’re really on an island. You’re not reload? No, I love the fact because I’ve had I’ve had reps come in where I’ll say, Hey, man, we’re having a side effect. And then they will come back and they’ll have a retort to it Robbie so they could call in and then the higher ups How could they sit in a room and be like all right all right, so we’re having a little this you know, this ass leakage thing here or, you know, as oil blowouts. What do we tell the

reps? Just tell them it’s working? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I we were blown away that that was the response. I mean, I’m like looking at the phone like this is unbelievable, but it didn’t really matter. So then a countdown around really anymore? I don’t think No, I think it’s an over the counter thing called ally now, said the same thing. I let me check. Oh, wow. Did not know. So.

Take orlistat

you are does it

does it list anal leakage as a side effect on their

over the counter? They can. They don’t have to list the side effects at $69 Walgreens

69 wow

I don’t know you know another thing they had us worry about was that they did have still out there I don’t know they did had the foresight though that you needed to make certain that your fat soluble vitamins like a D and K were were appropriately consumed because you’re blocking the fat of the way that they’re absorbed right

so you know what I didn’t realize was still available I’m I’m thinking for my severely severely constipated people

need to take about four days in a bathtub yeah me

know that. The reason it’s still out there is because there is some female that going to Florida and she got to get in her bikini and asked leakage and all

she gonna do it.

That’s so nice.

Yeah, well, that’s the funny part because that’s the misconception. You know, I’ve had a lot of patients that abused laxatives, thinking that thinking that they were having weight loss, all that is is just electrolytes. The reason Why you get bloated? It’s not your colon? It’s because whenever you eat the bacteria in your small bowel start breaking it down. That’s what causes IBS D. Yeah, for instance, yeah. Or you know, you cannot fix IBS D, as we learned earlier by, you know, doing a fecal microbial transplant. You saw that look like you’re like you’re kicking it around

all these things are going through my head like do I know the guy? Or is it some stranger? And then I started to think which is worse a stranger some dude, I know.

You’re gonna you’re gonna wake up at 2am honey, wake up. Listen,

I really can’t really can’t shake this.

No, but you’re right. So this still exists because the the misconception that fat is bad still exists. And people are desperate to do something. People really want to take a pill. It’s you know, and that’s why it’s important for us to continue to talk on shows like this and try and address Because I would hate to have somebody have you know, an oil. Let’s do an oil show, like just really trying to get into the, because I think you should coin that term. Oh yeah, well, I can’t he owns it. I trademarked it.


LDK what I use now you are about to share story we can I wanted to stop you short because I want you to tell it fresh on the on the mic. So you had you had some interesting experiences is a rapid stories as well.

Well, it’s amazing how similar the story is right? It was in the primary care setting. Right. It was a you know, you described this as being a doctor friend of yours, right? Same deal. I mean, this is a great relationship doc. And and the relationship is really important at launch, right when you’re trying to launch the drug, because relationship will will typically it is it’s all the caveat is that has to be a legitimate product. And, and you know, my friend, this doctor would always say that if it’s a legitimate product, and you can show me legitimate data of how it’s going to help a patient, then I will give it a try. Right? And that’s, that’s what you get from that relationship is that that initial trial at launch, right? And this, this guy would always would always give me a shot, right? So I got my new product in my bag. And it’s an inset, right? So like, Advil, right? It’s a pain relief medication. And the medication had been out for a while, but they had reformulated it to be in a nasal spray. Right? So pain relief nasal spray, is what we got, okay, that we’re bringing into to doc here. So we roll in there, and it’s a man, I’m so excited got something new for you. The old medication was not taken as a pill. It was taken as an injection. So that’s why it was that’s why the nasal spray application was such a big deal was it Yeah, so we’re not gonna really

rhymes with Cora. All

right, so anyway, I roll in with my new spray application pain reliever and I say Hey Doc, I got this new product, here’s the here’s the data. This is why you want to use it. These are the patients that’s going to help you know going through the whole thing. And he’s like, Yeah, man, I you know, I really liked that product, this new application might make it palatable for more patients, I will definitely give it a shot. any side effects similar to what you know what side effects

saying everything that you know, but that’s all that y’all

and you know, it’s on it’s very clearly stated on our panel piece here right here. Here is you know, what you can expect right?

And to get to market the market size, they have to list all side effects but remember the studies that there may be a varying sizes and so and and what people complain about the tolerance of different people so

well and and to be fair this product had, the way they had measured this side effect was in the percentage of patients that experienced it. But they didn’t figure that the degree.

How many patients experienced it?

Only 10% of the people have asked oil, right. 100% of those people really blow it out. Yeah. And that’s,

and so that turned out to be the deal, right? So I come back.

really freaking excited about, you know, that he tried this product, and I come in. Hey, Doc, how was it and he’s just laughing. He’s just laughing. He’s

standing there. He’s just like,

I said, What? I can’t tell that’s good or bad. Are you laughing because you’re so happy? And he’s like, no, no.

You gotta watch this. And I said, What You’re talking about he’s got a YouTube video loaded on his phone ready for me to play, right? So he plays the the YouTube videos and

film themselves or how did this one know this

was something that he had seen online, right? Oh, totally. So it wasn’t the patient, any patient that he’d given it to obvious Oh, right. It was just something other. He was doing his own research on it, or whatever the deal was, this YouTube video comes across. And so it’s this gentleman standing in

his kitchen.

And he’s like, Hey, I got this new product from my doctor, watch what this does, right? Like I had some elbow pain or whatever. So this is why I got this. And the dude shoots it up his nose and I’m instantaneous. It’s like somebody standing across the room with a rifle.

shooting in his nose, boom, boom.

And the dude is riding around on the floor in pain. So we got it.

This wife, I guess, I don’t know.

But essentially we have a pain reliever that causes more pain than what you initially had that made you take it in the first place.

So brilliant. Yeah, but we want to know while you’re on the ground did your elbow hurt

you forgot all about that. Yeah.

I wonder how many different stories like that are out there. That is crazy. I don’t

know I you know what, here’s another funny story that I had is I briefly worked for another company. And just like you’d mentioned, I think earlier that to be someone who is experienced in the pharmaceutical industry, you’ve you gotta grow some tough skin on how long your your tenure is going to be with any particular company because they get acquired they merge. layoffs occur whenever people lose patents, there’s all kinds of different things so I had to move to yet another company,

there’s some lot of I’m sorry to interrupt, but there’s a lot of logical moves that take place. Like I’ve had managers that one lives in Fort Worth one lives here. They made them switch territories, even though someone had to now manage Fort Worth, I just like it’s weird what the what they do,

I don’t understand the formula either. It often feels like the directions coming from the northeast, where a lot of them are based. And then to them the south and west is just zip codes. And they don’t realize how large they are, and switching them to be.

And it’s inconsistent, too. So you go from company to company and they don’t all do it the same way. That’s that’s the thing that’s crazy to me, right is that there’s not one formula for how all these companies operate, right? You go to one on one, and that’s why you never to your point, you never know what to expect. You never know what’s going to happen.

I’m sorry. I I’m sorry to interrupt. Oh, no, it’s just

I think that now that the environment around the pharmaceutical rep, especially with the farm act and and the way that there’s the sunshine act, and how everybody’s enforced the exchange, so that they can basically preserve the integrity of the representation of the medications. So was the environment because one of the companies that started with there was two training sessions, and I was I went to the second one. And we all heard about the first one. Because the first one everybody apparently showed up in it was it was in a place in North Carolina in Research Triangle. And they basically had new rules that were written up for how they wanted people to conduct themselves at this meeting, that they apparently didn’t make clear at the last one. So they apparently I think they brought in 20 some guy, I don’t know, 40 something people for the first training session, and ours was about the same, but I think seven of those 40 weren’t employed anymore about the time that we got there because they had partied too hard. Falling in a pool, and, and all kinds of just crazy shenanigans all over this hotel. So of course, they had to restructure the way that that I mean, from what it sounds Like when it occurred before we got there was the product if you were going to make a movie about the the wildness that could occur at a convention like that, or a sales training session, they had it. And so by the time we got there, they’re like, we’re all eating here. We’re all going to do this. We’re all going to go to bed. And in fact, I think there was back when the Carolina hockey team was, was in the playoffs, and there the Red Wings, were staying at the hotel where we were. So it’s pretty wild. But anyhow, so the environments changed quite a bit. But even when I did it, I was able to take physicians to golf, you can’t do that. When I did it, everything was done on paper. I think everything that you do is tracked digitally through the computer, how many calls that you do and it’s it’s far more of a science. Tell me about the story that you did, where they were kind of forcing you to spend your budget that much and it may be similar, yet still different. So for me, they measured us by our activity on how involved were we in our territory, and a lot of that comes down to your entertainment budget. You had a budget And you would think when you first got that that meant, okay, this is my maximum number to spend. But that’s not the game. The game was. If you’re not spending that budget and asking to spend a little bit more, you’re probably not working hard enough. Well, my territory is rural. And my market share at that time was great. And I really didn’t have anywhere to do it to spend the money. But I got a call from my managers like Eric, they noticed that you’re not spending everything all you know. And every month, at least this quarter, can you make up or whatever. And I said, You know what, that’s that’s ridiculous. So I just started going and buying tons of hamburgers. And I would go to the east side of Wichita Falls and hand them out to people who couldn’t afford food. And so I did the same thing in Ardmore. I did the same thing in a bunch of the small towns that I was calling on. Well, what I didn’t expect is one time I was handing out hamburgers in Ardmore. And one of the docs I called on the time drove by Rob before I went to his office, and I went in Assamese, like, were you handing out? All those burgers? I was like, Yeah, he’s like, what are you doing that for? And I told him, why did it He said, that’s the best use of a budget I’ve ever seen do not awesome. And then he moved in, he didn’t change classifications. He was already using a particular type of medication that was just our competitor. But he moved over to using our stuff simply because I was using our budget to give to to people who couldn’t afford food.

Quite honestly, I just I get I mean, I realized that my staff gets to enjoy when companies come in and bring us lunch, and it’s kind of a little pick me up for the staff. But, man, if it’s just me, and the staff didn’t enjoy it so much, I’d be like, Look, just donate the money. Tell me what you donated and we’ll sit down and talk. Yeah, cuz I get a little I mean, and I was, I mean, come on, man. I call the guy up to take my three buddies out for a whole day. It’s unlimited glass house. I mean, but as we age, we realize, Wow, it’s really, you know, you just start realizing that it comes back to a lot of people can’t afford this stuff. You feel a little weird, weird, you know, but then the flip side of it. That’s a way to get some samples where we can then give it to people that can’t afford it at all. It’s like the hamburger thing you know if you need this drug The only way that I’m gonna get it is by having somebody come to my office, I signed for it, and I can help somebody out that way. Also, you know, some of the cost of it is cooked into that.

We only got 30 seconds left. So, Travis, what do you what are your parting words of wisdom?

Nah, I thanks for having me guys. This has been a blast. This is fun. You guys have a good time here. Right? This is great. guys keep doing it.

This is the first time we’ve laughed on the show.

For 30 minutes all y’all did was laugh

I think we had a couple firsts on show 18 will title this one as oil

Yeah. I love it.

Yeah, no doubt. Be sure like and share gut check project go to YouTube. Go to YouTube search for get a project and then go to gut check project. com let us know that you shared we will see y’all Episode 19 Have a great

day. Take care everybody.