#50 Healing SIBO with Shivan Sarna

Eric Rieger 0:00
Hello gut check project fans and KB MD Hill family. How are you doing today? This is your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I’ll be feeling great today. This is episode number 50 halfway to 100 What does that mean? I don’t know. But I can tell you what we’ve got an awesome show. Our guest today is the author of healing CBOE. Shavasana. That’s right, the same one who founded CBOE SOS community online. shavon, has written an incredible book. And I wish that we had had our hands on just essentially a publication like this to share with our patients years ago, so that they know that they’re not alone. shavon has written this book, and you’ll hear a lot about it here in the episode, that essentially, if you’re new to suffering from SIBO, or you’ve got a a family member that just got unsolvable gi issues, and they they think it is SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. This book is for them. It’s not overly medical. It’s actually written from the patient’s perspective. Why? Because she avans that patient, she dealt with struggling to find her solutions for CBOE 40 years. She can tell you how she thinks that she developed it, what stressors caused it, who she talked to how she failed. And then ultimately, what she began to learn by connecting the dots and talking to a bunch of different professionals. And then tell you a little bit about not only how to heal from CBOE and how to maintain that status, and most of all, how to improve your quality of life. Because it’s all about healthspan it’s not just about lifespan, and health span is critically important if you’re gonna live long, live long and healthy. So let’s get to it. Our sponsors today are of course all trying to go to love my tummy, calm, love mydomain.com slash KB MD guess what is in Shawn’s book. I’ll try until That’s right, is right. She suffers from CBOE and she helps direct several people who deal with CBOE and she openly recommends artron to what do you know, polyphenols go to love my tiny.com slash KB MD. Get your own polyphenols today are trying to gigantic proanthocyanidin polyphenols in there. That’s right. So love my tummy.com forward slash KB MD and of course, unrefined bakery, get fantastic food and if you have a specialty diet, it’s keto paleo, gluten free or otherwise, and you want some of the foods that you felt like you had to avoid. Go to unrefined bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off of your entire first order. That’s unrefined bakery.com Last but not least, get your very own signature products from Dr. Keith Brown. It KB Md health.com. That’s KB MD health calm, especially the CBD. And here pretty soon to be a new product rolling out so definitely check out KB Md health.com. See what we have to offer arm our year for 2020 one’s going to change quite a bit as we grow the community and kind of have some really awesome revelations in terms of health and discovery. So check us out KB Md health.com. Check out the store, use code GCP and save 20% off of any order any day all the time. Okay, let’s get to it. Meet shivan Sarna, She’s the author of healing cebo, founder of Siebel SOS. She’s a delight. I think you’re gonna love episode number 50.

Hello, project fans. Family, I hope you’re having a great day. I’m Eric here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And again, for our 50th show. We’ve got a we’ve got a guest we’ve known for a long time

Ken Brown 4:10
well, so this is awesome. We’ve waited for this. And it just so happens that it coincided perfectly. That one of our favorite people, one of the people that is so knowledgeable about something that we are passionate about happens to have a brand new book, and she waited to release it till our 50th episode

Eric Rieger 4:31
that was very nice of her. What’s up chevonne

Unknown Speaker 4:34
Hey, anything for you guys. Thanks for having me. And I’m very thrilled and honored 50th episode and my new book that I’ve been working on for what feels like 50 years.

Eric Rieger 4:45
Heck yeah. What I mean the and you’re you’re so much bigger than than just that book. I mean, you started CBOE SLS. You mean you’re literally the founder. You’ve been working with Dr. Allison c Becker for quite some time. I’m going to forget something in here. Oh, and she has a cat named Belle.

Ken Brown 4:59
She Tennant Bell, I would actually I would venture to say that shavon because of your passion, because now that I understand your reasoning, why you’re passionate about it, because the book is phenomenal. I loved it. It was it’s a, it’s a really easy read, it’s really awesome. I’m gonna recommend it to all of my patients, because not only did you really expose yourself on a very personal level, so that you can show how, and all my patients are not alone. I mean, this is like what you actually explained in the beginning is exactly what my patients say. But then you got into the science and you interviewed so many of the world thought leaders on this, and then ultimately, you ended it with Look, I’m not just going to tell you about this, I’m going to tell you how to eat. And the last half of the book is a really cool recipe book about how to do it in the one thing, which is you’re doing something unique. It’s how to heal your Siebel in 21 days, and I’m covering your name their Shavasana beautiful Shavasana one of our favorite people and I’m gonna say that you are the voice of Zeebo. There’s lots of scientists out there, Allison cvac, or Mark Pim and tell Roussel all these people that you’ve interviewed, awesome, we know them, well, we love them. They’re great people. But you have a very unique history in that you have the ability to write, produce, and do these different things. So we need people like you to be the voice of this. And that’s what you really are becoming with this book. Congratulations on the book.

Unknown Speaker 6:34
Thank you so much. It’s been a dream of mine, my best friend told me while I was going through all of these treatments and discoveries, you know, you really need to write a book and I would like bring my notebooks into the doctor’s offices and appointments and they’d look at me go, you know, you really need to write a book. I really got to know. And I, I, you know, writing a book is not easy. This little baby like looks like a one and done. Oh my gosh, it was very laboris but I am a TV person. So I did the CBOE SLS summit one, the CBOE SLS summit to the IBS and CBOE SLS summit, the microbiome rescue summit. And now it’ll be my mother had lymphoma back in the 90s. No one knew anything about anything it felt like and I’m just working on the lymphatic rescue summit. So I really took everything from those digestive summits and put it into this book. And I have interviewed hundreds of people about the topic, including you. And I wanted to give everybody a book that was inexpensive, because 20 bucks for all this is crazy good. And sometimes Amazon has already put it on sale for 18 bucks, which is also crazy, probably won’t stay that way for long. But I’m thrilled. And I, you know, I wanted to get everybody a book that I wish I had had, because I was doing like Dr. Google and you know, staring at the incredible website, cebo info.com, which is Dr. C. Becker’s website. But I needed everybody to know that they weren’t alone. And if I could share a couple of stories and some recipes, and how to get through the day more easily plus the science. Then as I was talking to God and the universe and the angels begging for help. I was like, Look, if I have insurance, I have a brain. I have a great computer, I have a little bit of time on my hands, because for the first time my husband was studying become a CPA. And so I actually had some free time while he was studying. And I was like, Look, if I’m having a hard time figuring this out. I know other people have to be. So I told the universe, I was going to help them as I got helped. And here it is.

Eric Rieger 8:44
You know, I think all of that is awesome. And I don’t want to steal any Thunder from Ken as he goes over the various aspects is he’s he’s gonna, I’m sure pull some quotes and stuff from the book. But the thing that I liked is that and C Becker says it from the foreword is it’s written so that anybody who is new to this game can pick up this book and feel like they’re learning the what’s happening to me, what’s kind of the science behind it, and let’s give you some how on how you can begin to work your way out. It’s a it’s an awesome manual. And honestly, it’s a tribute back to when we very, very first teamed up with one of those CBOE summits that you did, and it’s been great for us and that connection for altran to to the CBOE community has, it was really was a launching point for our product as well.

Ken Brown 9:30
Well, what I love about this is that I can I can hand this book to people that have come up to me, because when we do the CBOE when I’ve done the CBOE summits with you, you have such knowledgeable people that join this and the questions are in depth and they’re there. And that’s not what I’m seeing in clinic. What I’m seeing is your forward. Yeah, you said my story. Yeah. And that’s what I see. I see the people that come in and they go I went to this doctor, that doctor said I do want to open with a quote, because this is basically how your book opens. And if anybody relates to this, I need you to go by healing CBOE by Shavasana. Like right now, because this will grab you, and this is your writing style. This is beautiful. This is what makes it really cool. You make it personal, and you make it sciency. But here it is. I was in the bathroom sweating. When I finally got out of there, the waiter looked worried. And my poor boss, a polite man in his 40s asked me if I was alright, I mumbled body functions and shrug my shoulders. I thought that was the funniest opening line, you basically described yourself in the toilet opening line. That’s awesome. That’s so vulnerable. And so cool.

Unknown Speaker 10:51
You know, I’ll never forget that moment. And I in touch through Facebook with that boss who’s no longer my boss, but and I can’t wait for him to read that. I don’t even know that. You’re in line. He’s like, let me just get the book.

Ken Brown 11:10
You’re the polite man in your 40s.

Unknown Speaker 11:14
It turns out he wasn’t in his 40s he was in his 30s. But I didn’t realize that.

Eric Rieger 11:22
Better. Hey, I don’t know if you know this or not. I don’t know if you have an audio version of your book out. But actually, Ken was just only doing that because he wants to be.

Ken Brown 11:30
I did not know. Yeah. So I was sort of auditioning for the audio version. Do you happen to have an audio version yet for your book?

Unknown Speaker 11:39
I actually do. I didn’t realize you were in the market. But I do. She is an amazing actor. award winning. And she’s actually done the audio books for some of the most famous and influential people on the planet. And I didn’t realize that when they were like, what about this person’s voice? I was like, that sounds amazing.

Ken Brown 12:01
I’m just gonna go back to

Unknown Speaker 12:03
song. Yeah, right. Anyway,

Ken Brown 12:06
doctor and do my thing. I will try an audio book person anymore. But that’s awesome. So you already have an audio version of this. That’s incredible.

Unknown Speaker 12:14
And Kindle? Yep. It’s It’s really good. Actually, when they told me they were gonna do an audiobook because I was I am so new to the book game. I was like, really? And they’re like, Yeah, of course. I’m like, Okay. I mean, it was it was really exciting. This has been an exciting process. For me, it’s something I’ve always dreamed of writing that book. And then I never thought I’d be writing it about this. But I am. I’m very proud of it. And the fact that you like that line makes me feel really safe and good, because I was, you know, this is like, really vulnerable stuff.

Ken Brown 12:49
Well, I think it’s the reason why I really like it, honestly, chevonne is it’s number one, it’s, it’s great reading, because it hooks you immediately. But that is actually the conversations that I have with my family. And it’s a very real thing. And people hold that in until they find a doctor that they can communicate with. And I hear that and I just say, hey, you’re not alone. And now I can sit there and say, not only you’re not alone, but it’s actually people have written books that have experienced similar things. I talked to patients that turned down jobs because the commute is too long. I talked to people that, you know, they they they won’t eat for two days because they have to go on a trip and so on and so on. And you’ve been there and you basically described that. I think that what you have done and I you know, I mentioned this in the beginning that you have become the voice of CBOE, you know, teaming up with people like Dr. C. Becker, who we all respect a ton and you’ve done these summits in his Facebook Lives. What you’ve done is that you have made CBOE front and center. And I’m gonna challenge you that I think that this is just the beginning because so few people really know what this is. But you may have to continue to do this to keep it front and center. Oh, so that people are

Unknown Speaker 14:04
like, in a way, it’s we’ve had over 2 million views of the summit’s, which is just like scratching the surface. So thank you for that challenge. Challenge accepted. I’m not giving up I am doing a lymphatic summit and I’m doing a biological dental dental summit because I think those are two things that are not talked enough about but my heart is always going to be here with CBOE because I have a big heart. I can talk about other things too, but the CBOE is So, look, from the age of five, I’ve had it so yeah, I just figured it out. That’s been a whole lifetime of obnoxious feeling. So I absolutely am going to continue I was just doing I just did six radio shows yesterday. NPR in Utah, Kentucky, Hudson Valley in New York. It was so cool. And I’m not I’m not stopping I’m not gonna be like, oh, launch now. It’s all over. I’m just not gonna Yeah, if it doesn’t it, does it. No, no, this is going to be like book launch every single day. I am totally totally thrilled to have it all here. And and also like those summits ranged anywhere from 59 to 200 bucks. Here’s 20 bucks people on here.

Eric Rieger 15:11
And yeah, like I said earlier, it’s just so easy to read. And I think that sometimes people get a little turned off when they only read things that are written medically and didactically. Like it’s, it’s about someone it’s not from someone who’s had that journey. And your book is definitely from someone who’s had that journey. I mean, do you want do you want to learn the pathway to, you know, to happiness from someone who’s done it or someone who’s read about it said, I think it’s that way? Well, yours is definitely one of someone who has suffered, like many do and who’s had their schedules compromised, your plans, sorted, etc, simply because of CBOE. And you walk us through exactly why you think that you ended up there and what someone can do about it. And that’s really what people want to know when they come to the clinic. Absolutely. And

Ken Brown 15:59
what I love about your book is that you have certain aspects, which are the little gray boxes, yes, which are just kind of pearls. And more importantly, you say how to use my book, like this is how to use the book. So you have this way of saying, This is my story, if you want to get into it, that’s fine. This is what I recommend. This is what the experts recommend. This is the science part of it. So it’s it’s almost a guide that people can go back and forth to so it’s, I want to read it once get the story. And I’m going to go back and use the book as a guide to help me get through this.

Unknown Speaker 16:35
I really appreciate that observation, because that is exactly what I was intending it to be. And on page 111. There is that protocol or the algorithm that Dr. Pimentel created that Dr. Sanford Lewis added to and Dr. C Becker attitude I even added to it. And this is we call it the Siebel recovery roadmap, which is also the name of the course Dr. C. Becker and I created and it takes you through everything where to test when to treat, what if that didn’t work? Go back to you know, it’s like a game right? Not really. But it this is the guide. So that is the whole book is based on that the whole course Evo recovery roadmap is based on that as well. And, you know, 21 days, people, it’s gonna take longer than 21 days. Okay, I’m just gonna tell you that right now, we were given a really good start. And you can make a plan in that 21 days. So

Ken Brown 17:25
this is not a spoiler alert, but it is kind of a spoiler. Alright, so it is a spoiler alert, if you’re, if you’re going to read the book, just press mute here because the the book, I mean, it grabs you right away. And then it really, really peaks and just nailed you on page 47. That’s probably my favorite page. by far my favorite page on 46. very bottom of 40. A book completely peaks at 46. And does a good job of maintaining From then on, but really, at 46 is really when

Eric Rieger 17:58
we get to print, we have a pre Super Bowl party just to sit around and read page four.

Ken Brown 18:03
Yeah, we’re gonna read page 46. That’s when she mentioned my name. So

Unknown Speaker 18:07
I was Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 18:11
You’re gonna go to page 46. And about Asan to Eric, I’m your name. I’m so sorry.

Eric Rieger 18:18
That’s okay. That’s okay. I really want people to come over to the house before the game and talk about

Ken Brown 18:25
that was not really a spoiler that was just thank you for mentioning me in your book. That was very, very kind of you. That was very sweet. And actually, that’s, there’s many, many other highlights in the book besides page 46. But go to page 46.

Unknown Speaker 18:40
I should have made it longer and bigger. There it is. Um, yeah, I think you’re also on page 220 as well. Oh,

Ken Brown 18:49
I missed

Unknown Speaker 18:50
219 Oh, gosh, I hope so. I hope you’re in there. Yeah. Dr. Ken Brown.

Unknown Speaker 18:54
There we go.

Unknown Speaker 18:57
So what can I say?

Ken Brown 18:59
All right. So one thing that I would like to do because you’re the voice of CBOE as far as my world, all my patients tell you, oh, oh my gosh, I had a patient today that I telemedicine visit. And I said, Yeah, this is really exciting. We’re going to be interviewing Shavasana and she goes, Oh, I was on her summit, and she told me to make an appointment with you and she lives in Texas, so she could do a telemedicine. So because of you She made it a point with me and she got so excited. Like, like, I was like this celebrity whisperer. She’s like, you know, shavon I’m like, Well, yeah. And she’s like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. I’m gonna watch this. It’s gonna be really neat. So what I really what I really liked was the beginning because honestly, you and I have worked together for a few years now and it’s always been in the medical aspect. I loved your story. Would you mind just telling who Shavasana is and why you ended up here.

Unknown Speaker 19:58
Okay, so There are many aspects to Shivani Varna one of them the multifaceted jewel that she is. Well, basically, you know, my parents are my dad’s from India. My mom is Irish and Welsh from upstate New York. And they met in the 50s. And in a New York Times ad, because this is relevant to not just like my life strike, because my father ran this incredible business called the Bell’s Sarna. And if you’re of a certain age, you know what they are. They’re the brass bells that the hippies loved. And I have an incense named after me and yes, man, I, you know, I like I’ve already arrived the incense, you know. That is like, wah, wah. Anyway. My mom was upstate New York. She went to work. In the big city, she had a merchandising background. He wanted her to run his showroom back then, and she would not work for him because he was not going to pay her, which I love and his family legend. However he did caught her and they did get married. And he was 30 years her senior and of another culture and was older than her mother. And father’s is very, yeah, he was born in the 1800s. Okay, so I was born when he was 69 years old. Oh, my, oh, my 30 year age difference anyway. So we would go on buying trips to India, they would and I would obviously, as a little kid, get schlepped along and I would go and you know, I’ve been to India a bunch of times as a child. I got really, really sick. And as you can imagine when my little baby microbiome, and you’re drinking water buffalo milk and just Who knows? So anyway, I got really sick. I just

Ken Brown 21:55
want to stop there for a second Eric said sure. Like, of course water buffalo milk. Why not?

Eric Rieger 21:59
Is that not something you saw? Yeah,

Ken Brown 22:03
I just thought, Wow, there it goes. Sure. Yeah, of course. indicator. We do water buffalo all the time.

Eric Rieger 22:09
Oh, no. Do we do dry buffalo? Okay,

Ken Brown 22:13
go on. sighs

Unknown Speaker 22:14
Why? Anyway, then I came back, right? A little kid. We lived in Manhattan. We went on field trips, right from this fancy Dalton school. I went to like super chic school. Anyway, we would milk the cows like little city kids at this farm in upstate New York. They had us drink some of the milk just like a sip, you know, no big deal. But man, I got so sick. Really? Oh my gosh, it was so sick. And like things weren’t the same. They just were not the same. And I remember my mom had a poster with a quote on it in the bathroom like as a decorative thing. And it was the first thing as a person that I’d ever memorized because it was bottom line is my father being Indian asked my mom like cheban going enough, you know, because like, there are a Vedic perspective, you gotta be going to be healthy. And mom was like, all of a sudden really worried. And that was the first time I experienced shame around the bathroom. Because like they were just a little bit too invasive enough. Five years old. I’d like it you know, mind your beeswax. Okay, get out of my does. But that was the first memory I have of that. And then it has just been like, I’m not great the rest of my life and I’m a skinny person and in college we would call my stomach Buddha belly, all the guards and perspective Buddha. But it was just like a thing like skinny person bloated belly. And I used to also see those posters of Sally Struthers you remember her and she would like save the child and they have these little kids with these big distended bellies. Right? Be like, look like that. Like, yay, what’s that? Am I okay? Anyway, not that not as severe, of course. But I fast forward, moved into a sorority house at the University of Florida and realized that my patterns were definitely different than everybody else. But I was doing okay, got into life got, you know, career, big career on TV 20 years at HSN home shopping network for those of you who are not my demographic and and you are not my demographic. And, you know, I was starting to get really, really sick towards you know, the past like seven, seven years or so. And I was like, the slimware was not working to hold the belly and the bloat in and I was really getting concerned like I started to think maybe I had cancer. I just didn’t know. And I insisted, thank goodness, he listened to me in a way my gastroenterologist I like begged for a What do they call, you know, endoscopy? No the other one and asked the colonoscopy stupid. Yeah, this is me doing a demo of a colonoscopy.

Ken Brown 25:04
I begged for him to play a violin and

Eric Rieger 25:09
I wanted him to conduct a

Unknown Speaker 25:11
mock up. So anyway, um, so I begged him to do this because I thought I was dying. I thought he’s gonna go in there and he’s gonna see something and it was like the day before Christmas Eve, it was like right before Christmas. I got the last appointment beforehand. And I thought, Oh, well, this is the year I find out that I’m dying. Something something’s clearly wrong with me. And you know, after the colonoscopy and you’re like, all drunk from the prop the proper fall. He’s like, not I just saw nothing. It’s fine. I’ll see him like five years cheban I’m like, how is that possible? And why is it that I’m upset that I don’t have a diagnosis right now? That is messed up. messed up. You should be thrilled. Answer That’s awesome. Oh, I you know, I just kept trying to find the right doctors and the several I went to were like, here’s an antidepressant You poor thing. Wink wink bless your heart run three miles like I can barely like get out of bed much was run run three mile I

Ken Brown 26:15
love that that you refer to that guys the run three miles doctor for several chapters.

Unknown Speaker 26:21
Yeah, I really don’t even remember his name. I just remember that. He’s retired now, which I think is best. So I did. Finally I was talking to my girlfriend at work. And she and I had this passing conversation because we were the weirdos who were gluten free. And you know, now it’s much more prevalent, but like we really like got flack for being gluten free. Just to show you how like backwards. The situation was. And she’s like, Oh, yeah, this really intense antibiotic right now for my gut. I’m like, What? And she goes, Yeah, breathe into these test tubes. And then I’m on this serious antibiotic and like immediately here, serious antibiotic and your brain shuts down and I go, I’m not gonna do that. But I couldn’t get it out of my head. I called her. I was like, What are you talking about? She told me to the best of her ability. And I asked the doctor for a breath test had the breath test for CBOE they interpreted it wrong. It literally said negative and I could see the handwriting scratch. No, it said positive and it was scratched out. And new handwriting was there that said negative, which is totally wrong. It was positive. But I lost 18 months, right? And you know, when you when you’re in this quest mode of trying to find out what’s wrong with you. Knowing what you’re not dealing with is just as important is knowing what you are dealing with. So I was misinformed for those 18 months. Anyway, I finally got the right person and did another breath test. And it was so freakin positive. It was, you know, irrefutable, and started treatment and was never told that you might have to do multiple rounds. So here I am taking my Rifaximin I’m like, yeah, I’m gonna get better. And after the two weeks, 10 days, I was not better. I was not better. I was confused. And I’m like, hey, it didn’t work. I’ve never had an antibiotic, like not work. And then I got I was like, wait a minute misinformation. I’m not getting the whole story. I’m gonna have to do some research here. And that’s really what I mean, there was a lot of research beforehand. But when that first round of antibiotics didn’t work, I realized something, something’s wrong here. Like, I’m gonna have to become my own advocate. So I started printing out the studies, I would like walk into the appointments with them, I’d be like, Look, here’s the treatment right here, you need to give me another round and I need some neomycin as well, dear. And my doctor was amazing, was very open. And now he’s basically a sumo expert. And he has a mixed emotion about all the patients that go to him at from my family with a lot of really difficult cases now, but that’s so that’s it, I took the IBS smart test, I found out that I definitely had post infectious IBS, which was a relief because I do my pro kinetic religiously. And even though I have the underlying cause of post infectious IBS, meaning that from food poisoning, I have thebault the fact that I am dealing with it and treating it with my mo Tegrity pyrokinetic I feel percent better and that’s part of the message that is really important is like you might not be cured on paper. It’s a different mindset. But if you’re managing your condition, you can feel 100% better than a than a condition on treated and you as medical professionals know that but I just want other patients to hear that

Eric Rieger 29:50
man that’s awesome, honestly, because when you tell that story, it’s it seems it is it’s very unique to you because that you’re the one experiencing it. However For the patients who come through with long term CBOE, they when I hear the stops, and I didn’t know, and I just wanted to find out, even if I found out what it wasn’t, it’s almost like everyone who starts off with CBOE or severe IBS. They’re just a long line of hurdles, that for years, you just simply had to jump over or push down to finally get to some kind of answer. And that’s, that’s, that’s who ends up in our clinic. 100%. And that’s why I wanted you to tell your story, because I felt that your intro of the book was it although the names are a little slightly different, the timeframe, slightly different, but every one of my patients has such a similar story. I’m usually the third or fourth doctor that they come to see. And they have that they have that response, which is that they feel that they are being dismissed, they’re being placated. It’s, you know, and they’re moving on. And

Ken Brown 30:54
the interesting thing is that much like you and intelligence, strong person that, you know, is successful, they know that something’s wrong. And they’re like, Look, I get that you’re a doctor, but I’m telling you, it’s like when it’s like when a mother knows that something’s wrong with their child, you don’t argue just okay, I’m missing something, right. And that’s how I feel about that. So when somebody comes up and says, and it is an I challenge you and everyone in this book that’s involved with this, because this is going to be a moving target, that we all have to continue to evolve and move through this because you covered so many important things in this book. So that’s your story. And then you get into I just want to go over the book a little bit. Because if if somebody’s listening to this, and they’re like, Well, I I was told I have irritable bowel syndrome. I mean, how do I know that I have this? Well, the first chapter you have is really basic, what is CBOE period, and you just, you just cut to the chase, which I love because I’m very myopic. By the time I see people, they’ve already done their homework. They’ve already been to your summit. They’ve already heard this, but you took a step back and you’re like, Look, this is what is CBOE. I’m going to tell you the basics here. So we’re going to cover the basics. And then not to like get too far ahead in the book, but then you went through and you covered things like some pretty intense stuff, relapsing remitting CBOE pots, stuff like that. So what I really love is that you tell your story, and then you said, Okay, this is my journey, this is what I learned. I’m just gonna lay it out there. And then these are what the experts say, in the gray boxes, you said, I interview this person, this is what they suggest.

Unknown Speaker 32:38
Yeah, I, you know, we’re very clear that I’m not a medical professional. I mean, I’m medically oriented in my brain, and I’m a yoga teacher. So I know some about the body. But this is for I wanted to write it for people who had never really taken the time to think about their intestines before. And I one of the NPR interviews, the person asked me, like, why is it that we don’t pay more attention, like we feel unwell, maybe we have a round of diarrhea, we take our Maalox or whatever, and then we don’t do anything until it happens again, and then we just get on this, this whole vicious cycle. And I’ve, I’ve really thought about this a lot. If my intestines were on the outside of my body, they would be so pretty. Alright, I wouldn’t be like have the prettiest, I’d be so proud of them. Everybody would be like showing theirs off. And you know, they put hats on them and different colors and tattoos and who knows what else it’d be decorative. So the fact that they’re on the inside of the body much like your teeth, right? You’d like you see these students back there? What’s going on with your tonsils? Like that’s, I don’t think people think about that, because we’re not staring at them. The way we are on the outer of our outside of our body. So I wanted to really write this for people who hadn’t thought about it. And there’s a section on learning how to prove Yes, there is a better way to do it. A tip for being lovers.

Ken Brown 34:00
Can I can I just stop you for a quick second, talking about if my intestines are on the outside. As a gastroenterologist and I know that you’ll agree with this. Here’s the deal, our outward presentation are outward, brain health are outward, everything is a reflection of our gut health. So if you’re somebody that’s battling rosacea, if you’re somebody that’s battling acne, if you’re somebody that has brain fog, or these different things you covered in your book, so although you say if my guts around the outside, really we do manifest our guts on the outside, in the way that we interact with the world. So

Unknown Speaker 34:36
brilliant, Lord, He is there. It is there, but we have to make the connection. We have to make the connection. And you know, I’m sitting here talking to you and I don’t have brain fog right now. But at one point, my brain fog was so bad and scared my husband so much because I could not speak it wasn’t for a long period. of time, it was just a couple of times where I literally couldn’t talk. And it scared the crap out of him. And it scared me. And then I was for a small period of time also memorable. stuttering, because I just, it just couldn’t come out. And I speak for a living. So that really scared us. But it, it’s real, you guys, it’s real, you’re not crazy, you are absolutely in have every right to good medical, you know, assistance, you are just a message to other patients, you may have to drive the bus for a while.

Eric Rieger 35:36
And I love the fact that you just use the word that you’re not crazy, because so many times we see people who’ve either been told that that’s what they are, or that they are overly anxious or they are severely depressed. And that happens to be the route that someone goes to. And truthfully, they may be experiencing anxiety or depression. But just as both of y’all just said, it’s really just a manifestation of a, it’s there’s an oven down there. And it’s it’s creating inflammation everywhere, and it’s affecting the brain. And it’s unfortunate because we need to begin to heal by taking care of the gut. So

Ken Brown 36:12
on our previous podcast, we interviewed a well, as soon to be PhD, who her specialty is in looking at gut inflammation affecting the brain. And what we can show is, and you actually talked about it in your book with the lipid polysaccharides. And things like that. Brain fog is actually a result of TNF alpha different inflammatory mediators that cross the blood brain barrier. So when people go, and they they beat themselves up, and they say, you know, my gosh, I, why can’t I do this? Sometimes it’s out of your control. And sometimes it’s because you have an inflammatory process starting in your gut, crossing your brain. So when you say, somebody that is a TV personality that struggled to find her words, that’s your livelihood. That’s not a fake thing you like that was real. That’s scary. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 37:05
What was it very scary. I happen to have been doing it on my day off. So it wasn’t like I had to go into work that afternoon. And I have good history of like, being able to sleep it off. Like if I don’t feel well, I take a nap. I’m often better. Because that’s just like, my body does a lot of work when I sleep. But it Yeah, it’s Look, if you’re in a banking situation, or you’re a nuclear chemist, or something, you have to be thinking about, and you’ve got to have clarity. Not to mention, it’s so hard to show up, right? It’s so hard to show up for your loved ones and for yourself. And, you know, the thought of running three miles or even like doing some fitness for myself at that time was practically impossible, because I was just like surviving. Now, it did have something else going on at the same time, which I didn’t realize until later. And that is that the television studio was infested with mold. Oh, yeah. So that is my opinion. That has not been proven. That is my opinion. However, I definitely have mold poisoning. I definitely have that. And so that made everything worse. And I think I ended up getting a lot worse with my CBOE and having those extra brain issues temporarily as they may have been, when the mold really started to you know, the bucket over was overflowing with that.

Ken Brown 38:28
Well, in your book, you also described the hours you’re working, the stress you’re under. I mean, it was the perfect storm, immune system to an end, everything comes down to inflammation, everything comes down inflammation. So if the inflammation is in your gut, it goes to your brain. If your body’s reacting to mold, mycotoxins same thing, it’s you, you unfortunately, were put in a situation that your immune system could not handle and yeah, or over handle. Let’s put it that way over. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 39:03
exactly. That’s when the psoriasis came and all that I have other friends that work there that don’t don’t have any symptoms of mold whatsoever. I have other friends that are like, you know, they walk in and their eyes are running whatever the situation is. But it’s interesting because they’re definitely people who are not impacted by it.

Eric Rieger 39:23
But chances are, wouldn’t it be something that would be important that if you don’t have a healthy gut, and let’s say that you do suffer from severe IBS or cebo you are now compromised, you will not be able to handle circulating mycotoxins otherwise had you had your gut been healthy and where it needed to be optimized. You may have never even noticed the compounding aspects of mycotoxins.

Unknown Speaker 39:47
Exactly, exactly. So it was the perfect storm. But you know, I, I want everyone to know there is hope there are answers there. You know, I think I do think Pimentel is gonna come With a cure, I really do, or at least, you know, big, big advances. I’m sorry, love a stat and didn’t seem to work out. But we do have natural alternatives as well. Thank you very much. I’ll try to.

Eric Rieger 40:13
You’re hoping that

Unknown Speaker 40:14
what is that?

Eric Rieger 40:15
That looks pretty?

Unknown Speaker 40:18
Really cool. This is one of those incredible stories that some friends of mine have developed from a conversation about a cow. Tell us that story. Dr. Ken Brown, please.

Ken Brown 40:30
The conversation involves a cow and Dr. Pimentel and I’m gonna go I’m gonna throw it right back to Dr. Pimentel. I mean, somebody that can take the concept of irritable bowel, which is a trash can, and then figure out that it comes down to bacteria. I love that guy. And I think you’re right, I think he’s gonna figure it out. And because him and I were working together, I was involved in the original studies ends I faccin. Trying to do it naturally is sort of my goal. And so everyone has their mission, I want to try and figure out how to heal people naturally. And the tannins in Toronto have been shown to help with bloating, irritable bowel and CBOE also, and which is why we got page 46. And page 219. Go read the book. It’s amazing. Probably the best part of the whole book, because that’s a whole separate discussion.

Eric Rieger 41:20
Is there a reason why we didn’t bring up water buffalo, and we’re only talking about?

Ken Brown 41:24
But so chevonne, a couple of the things that I found really cool about your book, which my patients struggle with. And I love that you had a chapter on his cebo controlling my weight. Yeah, if I have one complaint, it’s that patient say I’m eating less and still gaining weight. And you had a whole chapter on it. And I admire you for taking that on because you covered it in a very scientific way. I love that. Can you comment on that?

Unknown Speaker 41:52
Oh, thank you so much. You know, there are two parts of that. One is that and I had never really thought about this until someone in my facebook group wrote me an email that said, Hey, Sean, you’re talking about overweight a lot. You’re not paying attention to those of us who are underweight. And you know, ours is, you know, not a vanity issue, we could die. And it was a big wake up call for me. So in this chapter, I do address underweight for those of you who are listening. I mean, my heart goes out to you 110%, please don’t give up. For those of us who struggle with our weight on the other side. Dr. Pimentel, his wife is also a researcher. And she is doing a lot of studying about how methane actually a methane dominant or IMO, actually, those little ARCA rkip, okay, are absorbing your calories at a higher rate than other things. So you could be eating the same thing someone else is eating, you could have a twin, assuming all things were also equal. And if you had IMO, and they didn’t, your little guys would be absorbing more calories than someone with a different microbiome. And so that can lead to weight gain, which I found fascinating and deeply depressing, by the way.

Ken Brown 43:13
Well, it’s it’s really interesting, because there’s lots of fecal microbial transplant studies. Yeah, twins have had that do to ulcerative colitis and things I actually have a I actually have a patient that the twin got the FMT from the non ulcerative colitis. And then the twin started gaining weight developing, acting, developing polycystic ovary disease, things that she didn’t have, that the other twin did, it did help her colitis. So it is really it’s a very complex thing, the whole microbiome and the environment. But you did a really good job of explaining in the book about how complex it is, and how it’s so much of this is out of our control. So please don’t get frustrated. That’s not what I really got out of your book. Don’t, don’t blame it on yourself. A lot of this is out of your control. Try control the environment, the epigenetics, and the doctors that you go see.

Unknown Speaker 44:11
Exactly. And that if you don’t find the right doctor right away, keep going. I do here in our Facebook group, which you know, has over 17,000 people in it, and it’s just it’s an amazing community. I do hear sometimes despair, and just an unwillingness to do the next thing that they actually logically know is the right thing to do next, but they’re exhausted. And they aren’t even acknowledging their exhaustion. They’re just like, I’ve tried everything I spent $10,000, which I can totally relate. But Dr. Steve Becker has this thing which is very simple. And she’s and it’s in the book I know. And it’s Have you tried really everything like everything. It’s very rare that someone’s tried everything you could possibly do. And there are other options and don’t quit before the miracle, right? You hang in there, keep at it there. What if we only have like one thing or we didn’t even have, as I Faxon or Shawn deal to deal with it, we have a variety of choices. The herbal antibiotics have been studied, the pharmaceuticals have been studied elemental diet, to be miraculous for you are drawn to is miraculous for so many people. So the fact that you have all of these choices, I think is huge, huge, huge, huge. I’m not trying to be Pollyanna, but I am just trying to do a little bit of perspective change. And, and, and just encourage you to keep going keep keep I we call it spinning the plate in the industry of when like my my family and the gift registry, you spin the plate like well, you have the mashed potatoes, now you gotta sell them the peas now you gotta you just have to keep going.

Eric Rieger 46:01
I think you just described it, it’s CBOE and IBS, they, they’re complex problems. And complex

Ken Brown 46:07
problems require some complex solutions. It didn’t generally happen overnight. And, and addressing all that is is incredibly important. So one thing Shivam that you did hit on on your book also that I’m seeing a whole lot of, even if you’re a super tough person, and you just brush off all of this and say whatever so I’m bloated, it is what it is. I got a family out of I got to work I’m going to do things. I’m seeing that the inflammation caused by this can lead to a domino effect. Ultimately, which could be autoimmune disease, but also I’m seeing this this constellation of what you what you tapped on, which is this dysautonomia pots, probably, you know that the whole thing leading and so I’m seeing this constellation of Ehlers danlos people that then they started with cebo, then suddenly were diagnosed with Ehlers danlos. And then they go see a cardiologist to diagnose him with pots, and then all of a sudden, we’re talking about maules syndrome, medium arcuate ligament syndrome. And it’s this constellation where you’re like, wait a minute, you were normal. Five years ago, yeah. And now we’re talking about this crazy constellation of symptoms. We need to you know, it’s that whole thing of a walk it off. No, you need to rest you need to figure it out, you need to fix it before this becomes something more like an autoimmune disease.

Unknown Speaker 47:41
Right. It’s it, you know, I have mild Ehlers danlos, like, you know, legitimately diagnosed by a specialist. And you know, I can do this whole thing with the thumb. And you know, it’s I don’t have I know, people have, some people can’t walk from it, it’s really an insidious scenario. But if it started to feel like oh, I’ve got psoriasis, I’ve got a list and loves, I have the mold, I have old Lyme, I have old EBV. So I can totally relate to that, that there is a way forward to at least feel better, right, at least feel better. And you do have to take really good care of yourself. And the other thing, you know, you’re also teaching other people how to treat you by how you treat yourself. And there are two things I wish my parents had done. And my parents were amazing, amazing. I wish they had taught me how to save money. And I wish that they had exercised regularly and made that a habit for me. And those are the two things. I mean, it really obviously, look, if that’s my biggest complaint, I’m doing great in terms of my early childhood, but you have to teach other people how to treat you and you have to take time to do the things that you weren’t taught. So maybe that is doing the yoga class or just like frickin 15 minutes a day of a walk or shutting the door or whatever, or meditating or playing your favorite music and dancing in the living room. I really don’t care what it is as long as you really claim it and use it as a healing tool for yourself. Because in that quiet, that’s when that super thinking can happen. Now I’m a big meditator and that has definitely saved my life. There’s no doubt about it. And I talked about some apps and some places on the web where you can learn how to meditate. But even just that act of cleaning 15 minutes a day is so powerful and I believe it starts a velocity of other positive things.

Ken Brown 49:37
I would say I love that absolutely love that and I get made fun of by my family. I get made fun of by my friends. But the one thing that I’m teaching my children is that do not discount any idea until you number one researcher number two try it. So I will come back I’ll be like other beautiful Cast and there’ll be a random packages showing up from Amazon heard a podcast we’re gonna try this now. So it’s become a running joke in my family. But it the the nonsense sits down and the gold kind of stays up top and we saw no we call that we breathe, we do stuff and I’m and I’m I say this not so much for me and my kids I say this to my colleagues, don’t just pat somebody on the head and say the scope was negative, you’re fine because I’ve learned a ton in the last I’ve learned a ton from you. Yeah, I’ve learned a ton from you know, Dr. C. Becker, Dr. Russo, Dr. Pimentel, all these fantastic people that have taken the time to learn things and then put them in a readable format, so that we can all learn from it. Traditionally trained gastroenterologist like myself, I run into my colleagues that their initial knee jerk is, oh, there’s no science on that. Well, there is you just haven’t taken the time to look at it. So my, what you say is what I wish my parents would have taught me. You’re, what you did is you took everything great that your parents taught you, and you took it to the next level, which is, which is the legacy that you’re doing, and you’re doing an amazing job of that what I’m trying to do is teach my kids. I don’t know if I’m right or wrong, but I’m having an open mind. And just believe and try it. If it doesn’t work, no harm, no foul.

Unknown Speaker 51:35
But those are great steps in the right direction. For sure. Thank you guys so much for having me. Don’t forget to pick up your artron tail at CBOE SOS comm slash shop, we have one of the best prices in the world.

Eric Rieger 51:49
So I’m gonna say it again, go to CBOE sls.com. To link up with chevonne. And then in shop, we should go ahead and say it’s one of the best deals that you can get an electron to period.

Ken Brown 52:01
Alright, so chevonne has been a huge supporter of us from day one. And we are a huge supporter of her. So if you’re gonna buy ultra until this is,

Eric Rieger 52:11
and this is, you know what, while we’ve been talking, I just thought about it. It’s not just how to heal from CBOE This is really how to improve your quality of life. If you’re a player. I mean, you said it yourself it sometimes it comes down to management until something better comes along. But each day, we only have so many days. And if I can improve my quality of life, and this is something that is affecting me. This is how I improved my quality of life. And we talked about we talked about healthspan and healthspan versus lifespan you want you want good health for as long as you’re alive.

Unknown Speaker 52:46
Yeah, that is

Ken Brown 52:48
very worried. Sorry, interruption on I just want to add that if if if if you’re sitting here and you’re like, well, I can’t eat anything really. You can’t eat honey macaroons which are dairy free, gluten free, not free. Yeah, there’s a recipe for that bad boy. You’ve got some, some killer recipes are really, really good.

Unknown Speaker 53:07
They’re really good. And I did, I created them with Christie Regan, who has written like two or three CBOE cookbooks who’s a CBOE nutritionist who’s a fantastic human being. And I would eat her food when I would go to Portland, Oregon. And because that’s where she’s located. And I’m like, Oh, my gosh, I really need your help with this cookbook. And so we’ve created these together, and she made sure they tasted really good. And then I have the blessing of a woman who’s helping me the house right now, because I’m trying to do these other summits and do a couple of other products. She’s been helping me with creating some of my food. I just handed her a book. I’m like, here, I need this food. This is it. And I’ve been re tasting it. And I’ve been thrilled and very relieved. It is delicious. A long time ago, I just had that Green Goddess dressing with a slab of celery, yum. I mean, it’s legitimately really delicious. But I promised I would not say that. If I did mean I’d be like, Okay, fantastic.

Ken Brown 54:07
One last thing I want to I want to talk about your book, which is really awesome. Not only do you have a bunch of recipes to do this, but you really do have a 21 day plan where day by day you go through and you say this is what you’re going to do. And you’re going to walk people through just as if you were like a a personal trainer, and you said you’re gonna have this on this day, you’re going to eat this. It’s amazing. So it’s like it’s basically a no brainer. People are going to read the first part, they’re gonna go Okay, now I understand it. And then the middle part, you’re saying, This is what you’re going to do to fix it. And then the back part, this is what you’re going to do to keep yourself healthy going on. It’s great. It’s a great book. It’s awesome.

Eric Rieger 54:47
Gentlemen, thank you so much. chevonne for joining us, this is Shavasana healing CBOE and you want people to buy the book at Amazon. Correct.

Unknown Speaker 54:56
Amazon, wherever booksellers you know, find booksellers Barnes Although there are tons of places, but if you do buy it on Amazon, please do leave a review. And be sure to come to see Bo SOS calm to get the best deal on auto scale.

Ken Brown 55:08
And remember if you leave a review just mentioned that page 46 is the best page in the book.

Eric Rieger 55:14
Yes. Big fan. That is Episode 50. gut check project fans, thank y’all so much for joining us. shavon. Thank you so much for all of your support, introducing us to have you introduced us to and I’m certain that we’ll do this again. So,

Ken Brown 55:28
absolutely. So where do they go to get entrepreneurial from them

Eric Rieger 55:30
go to CBOE sos.com. And of course, we’ll always have it in our show notes so that you’ll know exactly where to go. And you go to the shop button. If you happen to go to the homepage and you can find it right there.

Ken Brown 55:44
That’s awesome. shavon I once again, thank you much love. You are the voice of CBOE and I feel like you’re just getting warmed up. Awesome.

Unknown Speaker 55:53
Yeah, baby. Thank you guys so much. Bye bye.