Every hypothesis and theory is subject to scientific testing. And that is no different when it comes to polyphenols. Silvia Molino (PhD) joins us from Spain on the GCP!

Silvia has dedicated almost an entire decade to unlocking the secrets behind polyphenols and how they are directly responsible for the regulation and biological processes that our bodies endure every minute of every day. Soon to earn her PHD, Silvia conducts her research in coordination with The University of Granada. The work is intensive and in-depth.

Essentially, Silvia has been able to show the world the how and why behind polyphenols. From gut health, to brain health, to applications to specific diseases like dementia, her work is amazing. Join us as we dig deep with Silvia, and like and share!!! Check out just two of her articles that we referenced in this show below in show sponsors and links.

Silvia Molino’ s studies referenced on this episode:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1756464618304110

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0024320516304593

Unrefined Bakery  https://unrefinedbakery.com Use discount code “GUTCHECK”  for 20% percent off of your first online order!!!

KBMD Health https://kbmdhealth.com

Atrantil https://lovemytummy.com/kbmd
0:00
Bienvenidos Ah, this is where no, sorry, I screwed it up. So I got really nervous. It’s like the lights came on. Okay.

0:14
Remember, we’re actually saying that Yeah.

0:22
Okay, there we go. Three. You ready? Oh, yeah. Okay. Three, two on bmnh Oh, god check project. Your soy, Eric. Esta Dr. Brown,

0:38
Dr. Brown Como estas Morgana, grassy asmita story super emotional o por el podcastone tenemos en invitado fantastical. gephi ancestors that podcast story.

0:54
Sylvia done this style of video.

0:58
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, guys, I can’t speak English. Oh, okay.

1:03
Oh, thank goodness cuz I’m pretty sure that’s all the Spanish Eric knew. And banyo I got that down too. So why don’t we Why don’t we start over and just take it from the top in English. Now that we know that our wonderful guest who lives in Spain to learn all about That’s right. actually speaks English. Okay, probably should have figured that out. Before we started the podcast

1:23
guys. I’m gonna start all over. So welcome gut check project fans and KB MD health family. It’s now episode number 49. I’m Eric. This is my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth Brown. And today we’ve got an incredible special guest that I tried. I you know, I can’t I tried Spanish.

1:39
I tried. You did so Eric. Eric dusted off his eighth grade Spanish. He was trying to impress Silvia you know, I mean, we’re both a little nervous because what what we have on the podcast today is super special. Everybody has heroes in their life and Silvia is my hero because she is a poly phenol expert. She’s getting her doctorate in specifically the polyphenols that we use on Tron teal. So she knows more about it than anybody I’ve ever met. And I’m so excited and nervous that we actually tried to speak in her native her native language.

2:11
I’m just embarrassed that but there’ll be a welcome to the show. Welcome to go check project. Thank you so much for making

2:20
videos.

2:23
She said y’all she’s trying to

2:26
learn some Texas now first of all, Silvia get us up to speed you’re living in Granada Spain. What is going on there? You You WhatsApp to me You guys got a little earthquake situation right?

2:38
Yeah, we were we were we were that weights. But now where? We stay better here. Fortunately, visitation is is better.

2:51
You said it so calm. When you just WhatsApp you’re like, oh, things are good. Here. We’re dealing with a lot of earthquakes. Thanks for asking. Tough in Spain.

3:06
We used to.

3:08
So this is this is super cool. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I have followed your work. Some of the work that you have done as the lead author I have used we’ve discussed it on multiple podcasts. If you’ve seen Episode 47 Episode 46 multiple other episodes, we always refer to the large stable polyphenols and how they get broken down by the microbiome and the purse that articles that always reference. This is the author of those articles. Sylvia Molino, who is I almost called you doctor but you’re almost a doctor, right? almost almost.

3:46
Nice. Nice. Hey, so

3:48
why don’t you tell us a bit about your background how you ended up there? What’s going on? Everything Everything about Silvia Molino.

3:56
Okay, so I am a biologist. I got my master’s degree in Italy. But I the my train sheep here in Granada, where we started working with embitter. And they’re just in implementation. And I fell in love with this argument. And then in one Congress, I met Michaela Battaglia is the CEO of silica team, that Britain is a b2b company that produced what the word leader is producing tannins that are polyphenols, sure, and he got interested in my work. So we started collaborating and and then we had the idea to create a new project to investigate the application of tannins in humans. And so I just started with my PhD working on that, and I’m still working on that and we have continuing on that

5:00
Yeah, that’s awesome. So when you when you first hopped into it, were polyphenol something that drew your interest in their immediate applications for for health or is it something that just kind of just happened over time? What was it that drew you into wanting to study about polyphenols?

5:17
Well, um, I ever I always have been interesting in polyphenols about more in general about nutraceutical okay, because I believe that we could treat some diseases or some dysfunction with natural product, because actually, we are using a lot of synthetic treatment, but they were discovered from studying nature. So sometimes I think that we could go back to the power of nature. And in this case, 10 is

5:56
absolutely Well honestly, the timing really couldn’t be better and where we find ourselves not just in the United States, but obviously all the way around the world for us to find and escape from synthetic solutions to what otherwise are just natural problems. And if probably we were consuming more polythene hauls as a you know, for the entire earth we would be in better shape. Yeah.

6:22
Repeat that.

6:26
Eric was just saying that you’re exactly right. We have always we have a we have felt that the consumption of polyphenols is what what we’re lacking in the western American diet. If we had more polyphenols we would have better health.

6:41
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah,

6:45
I was just gonna say you use the word nutraceutical, which is, which is interesting because we’ve, we’ve coined that term, but what does nutraceutical mean to you as a scientist?

6:57
Wow, it’s a hard question for me and you’re just starting over is a solution that could be assumed for from a person by person. Like it will be a part of the natural diet like it will be a tude. Okay, so something more natural.

7:24
Okay, so a functional food, nutraceutical interesting, a molecule that can have health benefits, but it’s found in nature?

7:34
Yeah, exactly.

7:38
And so you through your research, you found that these beautiful molecules called polyphenols have hold all this potential to be bioactive and possibly a nutraceutical for humans. So, for anybody that has not heard this, can you explain in your words what a poly phenol is?

7:58
Well, polyphenols are molecules if we can find in a network, obviously, the name derives from the chemical structure and they are well known for the multiple by activities beneficial by activities. First of all, they are antioxidant, they are what non antioxidant. And this is a super important characteristic of them because they help us to counteract the action of the oxidative stress. The oxidative stress is a normal events that we have that happens in our bodies, and can lead to a lot a lot of diseases and a lot of problems.

8:47
So leading to like inflammation, is that kind of what you’re talking about there with long exposures of oxidative stress?

8:53
Well, can you repeat, please?

8:55
Sure. Are you saying that oxidative stress leads to inflammation, like more inflammation around tissues? Is that what you’re saying?

9:02
Yeah, for sure. Well, normally we our normal metabolism, I produce free radicals. Okay. And this normal normal process of power rally, but what happens if we produce a high amount of, of these free radicals, and it’s normal to breathe in sometimes to produce a lot of free radicals. And the causes could be external factors, such as stress or bad diet, for example, we have some endogenous mechanisms of our body to counteract these production of oxidative stress done by the free radicals, but these are not sufficient and are not not the most of the times. So we need to intake somehow. From from external hub. And in this case, we have to take antioxidant. And antioxidant we can find, for example, polyphenols, other one on the oxygen, for example, our could be vitamin C, Vitamin E. But from our study, for example, we could discover that time knees, among other 43 years has exert a higher activity than this well known molecules, such as vitamin C. So we could, in this case, it is a smaller amount of external external compounds and not enough to not have to have the same effect. So it’s so great.

10:49
Okay, now it makes it makes a lot of sense. Very congruent.

10:53
Yeah, it absolutely does. So when we talk about these polyphenols and you brought up tannins, which is what your research has been in, we know that people that are discussing polyphenols, the molecules that make vegetables colorful, there are different sizes and different characteristics as a researcher that you have figured out, can you explain the differences in sizes, characteristics and antioxidant capabilities? Just real grossly and then we’ll talk about some of your research because I think it’s so cool. Getting the foundation like this.

11:30
Yeah, I’m on point he knows Wait, what polyphenols are a huge group of molecules. Among them we can find tannins and tannins are one known for the characteristic to the capacity to bind and precipitate protein alkaloids and carbohydrates among other molecules. Among tannins, we can have hydrolyzable tannins and condensed hominids, the realizable Chinese are called like that because they are the they are either realizable, with a lot of facility with weak weak assets. Among these group, we could find Gulf tannins, and a lot of tannins, depending on the different structure nucleus that we can find in the in the in the compounds. And when we don’t have a generalizable tannins we have so condensed tannins destructors are characterized by the presence of Brandis entities that can form a big big structure like with with bending blocks. Just explain in an easier way. And sometimes we could have also an association between advisable timings and condensed tannins. And so we have complex diamonds and the name was explained the complexity of the molecules because they we have in this case, big big big molecules.

13:06
So

13:08
the these molecules that are larger Danny’s the alternates, and the contents on this are characterized by the presence of a lot of hydroxyl groups. And these groups are responsible of the antioxidant, the great antioxidant capacity of the planets. So it’s also so important.

13:28
So let me pause you right there. So you’re saying that the what makes these polyphenols unique the polyphenols under the big umbrella, or the large polyphenols proanthocyanidins which are in the class of tannins. They have tremendous antioxidant capacity because they have the hydroxyl groups, a bunch of them all around the hydroxyl group is the oh ah that you’ll see in those chemistry structures are always there, hydroxyl. So you’re saying that the the amount of hydroxyl groups is very important to the antioxidant component?

14:04
Yeah, definitely. And they can exert they are different activity in different way. For example, and thanks to the hydroxyl groups, they could they have the capacity to come in the free radicals. But in other cases they could have, they could have also our endogenous antioxidant system, for example, they can use the production of antioxidant enzymes that we can produce.

14:38
Like, is that like super oxide? dismutase? Is that one of them? The anti turning onto what is it? What is an example of a endogenous antioxidant enzyme that the tenant turns on?

14:53
Well, well, what I was saying before what what I was what I was explaining before About our endogenous response to the oxidative stress, we produce some antioxidant enzymes, okay, for example supersedure, dismutase, or catalase, okay? So we know that tannins among all therefore the females can in us increase the production of these enzymes, so reducing that oxidative stress in our body.

15:30
So it’s twofold. It can basically bind to these weak acids, as well as make our bodies produce more of the enzymes to help basically combine these free radicals.

15:41
Onto production. Yeah,

15:43
that’s awesome. And I think that once we get to your studies, we’re gonna find it. That’s not that’s just the tip of the iceberg. That’s

15:49
just tip of the iceberg. So everybody, so over here, Sylvia, there’s shows like Dr. Oz, or he’s always talking about different diets, and they’re always talking about different compounds. They rarely discuss it as a polyphenol, but they’ll have a show on green tea extract egcg, or they’ll have a show on reservatrol. Or they’ll do these different things. But these are all polyphenols. But what people don’t understand is this complex science that you’re an expert in, which is what I love, because I can sit with my patients, and explain to them why these these particular polyphenols whether in diet, we always ask everybody during their diet or through a supplement, do multiple things. And the tip of the iceberg is the potent antioxidant.

16:34
Yeah, totally. Because the the oxidative startles then could lead to multiple diseases, that will be chronic diseases or chronic inflammation. So in this case, we can counteract a lot of problems. Systemic levels, or at local level.

16:55
Now, the research when you when you teamed up with Michaela, had you been doing research on these polyphenols? Or did you take some of the research that Silva team had done with the animal studies? Because they’ve been involved with cattle in the wine industry for so many years? Was this? Was this a hard step to move from some of that research over to the data that we’re going to talk about with your different studies?

17:20
Well, they have a great experience with with animals, they were they are working with animals from 15 years, maybe more or less. But it’s true. Try to start working with with humans is always different, because the information that we have in animals could have, but it’s not a reality is not a

17:51
translate, just because it happens in an animal doesn’t mean it will happen in a human.

17:56
It’s true. I wanted to say that. Okay, thank you. So, we’re here, I started working with an in vitro system, just to study in the deep in the, in this Moore’s more particles, because I wanted to know, how these molecules are acting and how they are metabolized. Because there are a lot of literature about tannins, but there, there still be big lack about the information because it’s totally new this argument, this issue. So I first started working on the antioxidant activity of different extract. And then I proceeded to digest and ferment in vitro, just simulating that the digestion of the human body to try to drain to discover what’s happening in our body when we intake tannins,

19:06
so I’m sorry, no, no. Well, how long have you been then working with Mikayla and Sylvia team then because what I’m curious about is since you started doing your research, and kind of what your observation is, or how you’ve seen the world’s view possibly change or be influenced by powerful studies regarding polyphenols and their benefits with health what what have you seen while you’ve been working with Michaela, and has the has the are people more receptive to that idea?

19:41
Well, I started a six years ago, okay. And when I started, I have to be clear, I didn’t know anything about tunings. I knew just the tunings about wine, wine, I’m Italian It was a total discover for me. Um, yeah. From my studies, I think that we discover a new product that could resolve a lot of problem. Above all, I think this is a great way discovered about InDesign. It is, I think the solution for all the problem, I don’t know, maybe could be strange to understand. But I discovered a lot a lot of properties of time knees, because fundamentally, they have a prebiotic action. So they function like a fiber, they help our digestion, they can modulate the composition of our microbiota, and through that they can regulate our inflammatory status, our oxidative status, so it’s perfect.

21:10
I think that’s so incredible, because what we always hear about is just the antioxidant potential. So here from a marketing standpoint, a lot of people try and sell supplements, they go, this is an antioxidant, this has the highest antioxidant capacity. What you have discovered in your research is, these beautiful large molecules do so much more than that, which you just touched on right there, which is it functions like a prebiotic, meaning that it feeds our own microbiome. And we know that when we have a diverse microbiome, you end up having a healthier body all around. So when I started treating my patients with our combination of the cabrito, and chestnut, and we were seeing incredible results, I knew what was happening in the short term when we were getting the bacteria, the bacterial overgrowth. That’s why we developed it. But so many of my patients felt better and better while remaining on it. And now I can explain to them because of your research, what’s actually going on. And that’s what’s so cool. And that’s what’s so neat that most of the research that is done and you’ve You know, this are done on smaller phenolic compounds, those ones that we talked about. So they always talk about the same ones over and over course, the 10 reservatrol curcumin those, you took a step back and said, Wait a minute, let’s find out what happens when we look at these larger molecules. Definitely. And you use the really cool term because I’m going to start using this building blocks the molecules just a large building block. Yeah. Which is awesome. The when, before we get into your research there, I had to plow through trying to trying to prepare for a paper and some and a podcast of really big article called the immunomodulatory, anti inflammatory antioxidant effects of polyphenols a comparative review on the parental compounds and their metabolites. It’s like a 50 page article where all they did is show that no every time you take one of these polyphenols, it does more and it gets broken down into more things. And it was like really thick. And then you I found your article, which do you have more questions? Because I think one of the coolest

23:20
one of the things that you said that we’ve said on the show multiple times is you said the word prebiotic, and that’s still not really a commonly used word here, at least in the States. Would you mind Silvia kind of explaining what you view is a prebiotic?

23:36
Yeah. Normally people know that term probiotic. And sometimes there’s like a mistake between pre and probiotics. So I could explain it a probiotic. It is like a strange this, our bacteria normally are beneficial bacteria that we can intake. Normally with yogurt or the products. A prebiotic is something that is before the bacteria. So if something is a substance, or for example, fibers that could act on the on the composition of our microbiota. So we are not going to change the composition of our microbiota by taking some external strain of bacteria, but we just want to moderate what we have with prebiotic

24:36
makes sense. So basically, it’s it’s almost like the perfect food for the bacteria that we already have. Right? Yeah.

24:44
If we give to our microbiota, like a good food to to grow well, right.

24:55
What generally speaking since you’ve been doing research on this over here, probiotics. It’s a massive industry. But just recently, a lot of data is coming out that probiotics probably don’t do as much as we used to think, mainly because many of these probiotics that we purchase, don’t make it to the colon where your microbiome is, what are with through your research? I’m just curious what your opinion is on probiotics in the use in humans? Well,

25:31
I think that each person has his own microbiota, and each person needs a specific strain of probiotic. And it’s so difficult to do that. Because normally, what we can find in the supermarket is like last bifidobacterium more lactobacillus but is so general, we don’t know if that strain is the right strain for us. In the other way, it prebiotic always is good, because it’s helping our our on microbiota. So we are going to solve the problem for sure. Well, and then there are other technical problems, for example, the probiotics are not so resistant. So sometimes we can intake a product with probiotics, but they don’t have done work. So good.

26:35
That makes sense.

26:36
Yeah, that’s we’ve we’ve done a little bit of research on this, my personal belief is, is that when, when we look at probiotics, we at least know that certain things like a spore based probiotics stays in the spore form. And there is clinical data to show that it can make it to the colon where then it wakes up. And if it’s got the prebiotic like a polyphenol with it, the combination helps both of them improve the microbial diversity, or basically they work together.

27:06
Actually, there’s a paper that is in publication. So then I can send it to you. I always working with in vitro, they just send fermentation, I could demonstrate that the intake of tannins caught it improve the diversity of the of the microbiota.

27:29
It’s perfect. That is huge. Hey, out of curiosity, if this paper since you’ve been doing some of that research, is it possible that not only will the tenants improve the diversity, but will it help raise good bacteria and lower the type of bacteria that we know can create problems?

27:47
Yeah, we have to know that tannins are really our molecules produced our secondary metabolites from plants. And these metabolites are produced from plants as defense. So these cues are produced to counteract the action of bad guys, such as bacteria, bad bacteria, or other other external factors. And and if we intake tennis is up in the same field. So they are able to detect the bad guys, the bad bacteria. And I don’t want to say to kill them that reduce the amount or the activity. And the other part on the other part, they can increase the activity and the functionality of the code guy or the good bacteria.

28:45
That is awesome. Nobody has said that before like that.

28:48
No, they haven’t. And in fact, it makes perfect sense, because it’s not like and Sylvia said this earlier, it’s normal for us to have reactive oxygen species, right. But in small amounts, what do tannins do, they keep us from having too much. So you’re saying it’s not eliminating all of the quote unquote, bad bacteria, it’s more or less delivering balance, where we need balance

29:12
is a modulation.

29:14
That’s beautiful. It’s allowing mother nature to do what it’s what it wants to you. We hinted at it at the beginning of the show, but what happens in the pharmaceutical industry is they go, Oh, we want this molecule, let’s make a drug out of this tiny molecule and not taking into account that when you give the body what it wants, it will use what it needs to make sure that it keeps you in balance.

29:37
Yeah, I think that the great thing about the extra toe I’m working with from siba team is that they are Phyto complex. We are not working with just one specific molecule. We are working with a group of molecules so we have multiple action and multiple effect.

29:59
Let’s say you have I have a paper on this specifically and and it really, really piqued my interest. And the reason is because you illustrated and then essentially gave the How to on why a larger parent molecule, which basically would have more of these smaller polyphenols is actually what your body wants, because simply, it begins to pull apart the polyphenols as it needs to use them. Is that is that right? Is that how Am I understanding that correctly?

30:31
Yeah, yeah, it’s correct. and here we can find it another super characteristic often is because we can see that they could art at a local level in the InDesign as big molecule. And these big molecules are the molecules that are that are going into in contact with with a good microbiota. But when they are metabolized, they could give form to smaller metabolites. And these modern metabolites are the responsible doses possible of the systemic effects. Okay. They could pass them through the intestinal barrier, and then extra day they fashion and system 11 in the audience, there isn’t

31:19
that kind of what you called post biopsies. So

31:20
yeah, that’s we’re referring to those metabolites as post biotics. So it’s the post biotic or the metabolites or the break? Absolutely. So can you do me a favor? I’m, can you explain, I don’t know if you can see that. But your little summary, the diagram, but this is what’s so cool. And this is what separates Silvia from everybody else, she developed this super eloquent model, can you explain what you did with this, because it’s so neat. With in vitro digestion?

31:58
Well, the in vitro digestion and fermentation are two basic steps. First of all, we have the digestion. In this case, we are mimicking what happened, what’s happening in the mouse in the stone much and during this time, we mimic the temperature pH, enzymatic condition that we find in the in the mouth, and then in so much and then in time, okay, then what we obtain from the digestion we take apart, and we put it in contact with the microbiota within inoculum. And then we’ll add a permanent state. And then from that, we obtain our sample that we are going to study. So from from these records, we have a resembling matters of that of the human digestion.

33:06
So in your diagram, so cool, you mixed one to one in the oral phase with salivary fluid, salivary amylase at a certain pH, then you mix it in the gastric phase with gastric fluid pepsin. So a digestive enzyme at a certain Ph. And then in the intestinal phase, you mixed it with intestinal fluid, including pancreatic fluids, like trypsin, and bile, that’s fantastic. So all three phases of digestion, then you separated those, and you took one of them, and then you fermented it, to show what happens in the colon.

33:41
So this part is very important, which is is important to us. And we wrote a paper, I think, in a few days will be published in, in natural protocols.

33:55
That’s incredible. So then you took this fermented you first of all, you took the digestion part, and then you analyze that and then you took the fermented part, you analyzed it, when you say analyzed it, what did you do to analyze it?

34:10
Well, we could perform every type of analysis, I dedicated my studies about the antioxidant activity of of tannins, just to see how can the digestion and then the fermentation could affect the antioxidant activity exerted by by by tannins, and then I try to understand how these big molecules could be metabolized by our body. So how the structures could be affected by the action of the enzyme enzymes or digestive enzymes and then how these molecules could be affected by the action of the gut microbiota.

34:59
Okay. Makes sense. So essentially, she was just trying to show the what’s going to happen all the way through the entire phase of having a polyphenol.

35:08
Yeah. Which is so cool because nobody has done this yet, looking at the literature, this is the one thing that I’ve wanted to see for so long. What happens with these large tannins through digestion and through fermentation? So after fermentation? What did you notice? Like What Did you see when these large building blocks were digested and then fermented?

35:31
Well, after digestion, and it was a bit surprising that the large molecules, they’re still there. But then, after the action of that gut microbiota, we could have said that a lot of small molecules a small metabolized were forming, thanks to the action of the of the of the bacteria bacteria. Okay. Yeah. So we could see the formation of smaller molecules, typical from the idealized Bhutanese or from the combat standings. So we will see an increase in the presence of Corsetti in a gcg, galley kassig, or ellagic acid.

36:21
This is this is awesome, because just not to veer far. But right now stateside, what people are hearing about on podcast trying to find solutions for people maybe who can’t get access to a vaccine, or they have difficulty because they’re overly exposed to public, they’re getting lots of guidance on utilizing certain polyphenols, like course attended cetera, to function as zinc on a force. But what I’m hearing you say is that you can actually still get that same course. And they’ll have your body disassemble a much larger parent molecule or parent poly phenol. Yeah. And your body will essentially pull apart exactly as much as it needs. Is that right?

37:03
Yeah.

37:07
Can you do that?

37:07
Yes, no, no, it’s fine. I What I’m saying is, is that your what you illustrated in here, you were able to find these metabolites of the bacteria was able to make use of the poly phenol. Yeah, some of those included the corset in which, over here stateside, now people are hearing about corsten. And its ability to help people with antiviral activity. And what I’m hearing you say, from your research, you can actually get plenty of course it in by having a larger poly phenol that actually has it inside. Is that right?

37:39
Yeah, actually, we know that our extracts for use from from Suba team are very effective for antiviral activity. And we started to with a big trial clinical trial in Argentina, and what does is trying to give a supplement to COVID patients. And we have the first results, we don’t have all the results, but we have the first results about that. And we could have served at first that the passion supplemented with tunings Beside that, then the typical therapy registered and a decrease of the inflammatory status, we registered the crease of for example of some indicators like TNF alpha.

38:31
That sounds very familiar. And again,

38:34
very, very, very familiar. Still doing what’s really interesting is that this is the first time that anybody has discussed the fact that over here, there’s lots of supplements, and the supplements are Oh, get this green tea extract, oh, get this ellagic acid, which will help produce your alisson get this course written. And so I have so many patients that have 20 different bottles in front of them. And they’re doing this and then when we realize that no, once again, that’s almost a smaller version of what the pharmaceutical companies are doing. It’s like, Oh, this molecule was studied here. So I’m gonna go buy that molecule. But when you give the large stable molecule, Mother Nature’s secret weapon, then your microbiome will kick off these smaller molecules like this corseted. Now, something that’s interesting, I did reference that first study that was really thick. What they did is they did, they did mass spec on these different polyphenolic compounds, including reservatrol, including quercetin and including tumeric. And what they showed is those are poorly absorbed, and they end up having to be broken down also. So it isn’t like taking the smaller molecule is a shortcut, it still has to go. The beauty of using a large tannin like this is the prebiotic effect which improves the microbial spectrum. And then the broader the microbial spectrum, the more of these beneficial, smaller phenolic compounds are going to get 100%.

40:04
And this is just like a bi directional relationship between tannins and microbiota because tannins in some way, we could say that feed the microbiota as prebiotic, by then the other way that that feed, the Fed microbiota is going to metabolize them.

40:29
A bi directional relationship bi directional relation tannins and by the micro. Yeah, it makes sense. They need each other.

40:37
Yeah. Frequently, I think of tannins in the microbiome, like the bidirectional relationship that Eric and I have in our friendship. Yeah, I need him he needs me.

40:48
If it weren’t for him, bringing AGI patients, I would just be putting people to sleep for nothing.

40:52
Yeah, they would just go to sleep and nobody was doing anything. This is what’s so cool about this is can you just explain really quick, just so that people don’t take your word for it yet, you ended up doing some pretty cool chemistry to determine what molecules were there. So what did you do when you did the fermented how you were able to show that quarter 10 was kicked off that your lifting was kicked off that egcg was kicked off

41:18
what I had to perform before an extraction of the polyphenols. And when I had the sample, I perform an analysis on a uplc ms. That is a huge instrument that allows our allow us to identify exactly every single molecules.

41:41
So the detectable so she had definitive proof that they were there.

41:44
That’s awesome. Right there. I’m looking at her mask. Right there. Got it in the article.

41:50
Mass Spectrometry. Yeah,

41:52
yes. I love that. That is what’s that’s the thing that I think is going to be the biggest game changer understanding that through your science, really, you can get these other beneficial products through one parent molecule, the building block. And that’s what I try to tell my patients like, Well, why don’t we take the largest, most stable tannins, right, put them together? And then as you take that, that will not only feed your microbiome, but you’ll also produce these other things. And then the metabolites, the other metabolites like, oh, short chain fatty acids?

42:28
Yeah. Because we don’t have us only just the metabolites deriving from the receptors of the big structures. We also have the other secondary metabolites that arise from the action of microbiota. We know from my researches and from other scientific literature, that tan is good in us both microbiota to produce short chain fatty acids. These small molecules are so important for us because they exert a lot of activities, they will be absorbed, and they their main activity is an anti inflammatory effect. But also they are super important for them. Past military maintenance of the sad part of what leaving what been leaving for this house. Yeah,

43:25
I mean, we’re basically on about item number 17. on why polyphenols daily are critically important. And Silvia put it in here in a paper that anybody can read. I mean, this is awesome. 100%, when when you did this article, this is the thing I’ve been trying to explain to patients for so long. And you showed it very eloquently here, you also have another published study, which is pretty eloquent in itself. And this one is a little bit more related to the thing that we’re both very passionate about, which is the brain gut access. Yeah, my my goal as a physician, eventually is to make it so that we protect the brains of people we know that inflammation results in all kinds of different diseases. And you actually published a paper as the lead author, polyphenols in dementia from molecular basis to clinical trials. How did you decide to do How did you decide to do a review article on dementia? That’s really cool. That’s right in our wheelhouse also, definitely.

44:25
Well, at the moment, I was working in a lab in Italy. They were specializing in dementia, and they wanted to publish something about about that, and they proposed me to write a paper. And I think that I had inside already that the love for pony feels. At the moment I was working with polyphenols of grapefruit,

44:53
grapefruit. Oh, yeah.

44:56
So I started searching something and then I just decided that it’s dementia and polyphenols, I started to find a lot of source. So interesting literature and then I could find also clinical trial. So I decided to construct the paper from the molecular basis to explain exactly what’s happening and its molecular level until to the clinical trials. What happens in the passions?

45:32
Well, it’s a it’s a powerful piece, because essentially, you’re outlining that somebody who has had dementia, it’s probably have long exposures to inflammation. And then in the paper, you’re essentially showing how or why I guess polyphenols are critical.

45:47
So So in this particular paper, you were looking at the literature. So this was a review. So the literature that was available, looked at those different molecules that were already talking about reservatrol, curcumin and things, and I have to I love how you address this head on you said that the bioavailability of curcumin tumeric, which everybody talks about all the time is very low, because it is poorly absorbed and rapidly metabolized them eliminate and eliminate it. Here one study that talked about this, you go in to describe how reservatrol has very low bioavailability. Everything that you’re talking about is exactly what this other article did, where it showed that even these smaller phenolic compounds do that. So we know that there’s evidence to show that this can help in dementia. How does it help in dementia, though, let’s just so when in your review, how did you figure out that it helped to prevent dementia or assist those people with dementia?

46:42
What the mechanisms are with are always the same. First of all, we have the antioxidant activity and anti inflammatory activity. What I can say now, after some years, I could say that could be related also to the modulation of the microbiota, because we know that almost 70% of the immune system is in the in dangerous time. Okay, so by regulating the microbiota, by maintaining maintaining a good status in the intestine, and reducing the inflammation there, we could then regulate also the inflammation all over the body and also reducing for sure, the inflammation that can lead to dementia. So it’s everything is related.

47:41
So she used some pretty common terms that you and I have talked about quite a bit, right. Um, thing about Oh, NF Kappa beta. Yeah. CRP lippo, polysaccharides cyclooxygenase. pathway. So that is that definitely summarizes Do we have this thing, open that up real quick, like Sophia, this is what Eric and I did last time. That’s all about inflammation and polyphenols and where they help.

Yeah, so we I, I drew first and then we realized how bad it was. So we found a young child, a kindergartener walking down the street, better than I did, so we paid them to do this. So it’s done by some children.

48:28
It was another one of those bi directional relationships.

48:35
bi directional relationship. So this is this is so exciting. Here’s why you’re doing research, you have shown that the cause of dementia is actually due to inflammation, which we talk about all the time, all the time, diseases, inflammation, cause of cancers inflammation, we have, I have a lot of friends that participate in a lot of combat sports. I have a lot of friends that are former football players. So I have this whole community of people that have had traumatic brain injuries, which I think could really benefit from stuff like this. We know that because of the diet, people have a pro inflammatory diet correct. And you know, when we look at this, that the group of people that I treat a lot are people that have intestinal inflammation through bacterial overgrowth, poor diet, one of the most common things that they talk about or if I asked them is brain fog, or fatigue or anxiety. Yeah. And now we know

49:31
the reason I found in nature tour I can I can send it to you to interesting papers talking about some products that have been developed with tannins for the productivity for the mentality. Oh, Gordon, explain why but I guess it we could do it.

49:56
But I mean, isn’t that something though, they probably stumbled upon it. Not really knowing. And quite honestly, it’s your review and some of your other research that’s starting to show people the why, which is critically important. Why, you know, why does someone want to do what it is that we’re doing with polyphenols and Sylvia’s? Honestly, paving the way on on the why it’s very powerful.

50:18
we all we all have heroes. Sylvia, you’re my hero, you are proving the things that that we have been trying to I’ve been trying to explain to my patients. And then now I can go low. I’ll refer you to this article. This is why this is also why I think it’s important to have a good diet, but also the long term strategy of the longer that you allow your body to access these tannins. Definitely the more your microbial diversity, the more you will block the inflammatory cascade. Yeah,

50:50
well, inflamed inflammation long term is not an overnight thing. So in order to repair our bodies, you need to consume healthy polyphenols for a long period of time. And then your body gets used to having the tools that it needs to provide your body with the short chain fatty acids or the Euro lessons or the course it cetera, for you to repair and control inflammation it makes, it makes a lot of sense.

51:17
Yeah, totally.

51:18
Okay, Sylvia, so I had, I did clinic this morning, and I have a series of patients, and I told them, I said, Don’t worry, I’m having one of the smartest scientists in the entire world on the show today. This is an interesting thing, because of your research, I think we can help some of these people. I have a series of patients that have had their colons taken out for various diseases, either, that, for whatever reason, they have no colon. So now they have no microbiome. So now, in fact, I had a patient. My last patient said something really interesting to me. She loves she loved taking artron teal, she said she’d never felt better. And then due to some adverse events, she has an ileostomy so that she’s not connected to her colon. And she said today, she’s like, I just don’t I don’t get it. I’m not feeling as good as I used to. And I’m like I do. Because we’re not, we’re not breaking these down. We’re not fermenting them in the way that they should be. So my task to you, how do we develop something for people that do not have the capability of fermenting foods, tannins, prebiotics, to have these beneficial to handle this opportunity to decrease the inflammatory cascade? What do you what pops in your mind of how we can figure something out for these people that don’t have access to the microbiome? Am I saying that right?

53:00
Well, just to understand your question, you are meaning don’t have access to microbiome in the senate don’t have a white coat microbiota, or

53:14
no, they have had their colons removed completely. No, yeah. So no large intestine Yeah.

53:23
Okay. Okay.

53:26
One of our

53:27
one of our prior guests, one of our prior guests, Angie, she said, You got to figure this out with I’m gonna call you Dr. Sylvia. Because you’re you’re almost

53:40
you can go me almost doctor

53:45
Well, does he go Tada, Silvia de la luna Casa gasi. Dora, that’s almost doctor, I’m catching

53:51
up.

53:55
No, but it’s something with with your with your research that shows that people with a colon will have a a more beneficial response to prebiotics and to these polyphenols. So is it possible that fermenting them first and then giving that as an absorbable

54:18
this could be a possibility. We called what the product should be developed. But it’s, it’s okay. We could do it in laboratory The name of this product are post biotic as we were saying before, sure. So we could generate directed the metabolites from from Danny’s from the big structures in laboratory by fermenting them with an old microbiota outside the body. And then give the to the patient the post biotic so all the fermented Tell the lights

55:02
be interesting to at least try. Because if without having the colon, you have to kind of wonder though, if the passage is quite the same when it comes to only having a small battle. That makes sense.

55:15
It’s extremely, it’s extremely complex, and we’re seeing it more and more. And so I’m just wondering how, you know, figuring something like this is it’s a small community.

55:25
I can’t hear you anymore.

55:28
Oh, that’s because he was on mute. I’m sorry. Well, I was just saying that it is a small community, but people that it’s insult to injury, if you have a disease, ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s disease, a severe dysmotility, whatever, and you have your colon taken out? That’s hard enough. Yeah. And then from then on, how do you make sure that you are able to produce these metabolites, which decrease your inflammatory pathway? Sure.

55:58
And you need them systematically?

55:59
Yeah. It’s just something that I dealt with this morning. And I said, I have the person has the answer. How long do you think it’ll take you to develop this product? And then get it back to me so that I can start helping my patients? I told him, I told him about a week. Yeah, cuz gosee looked at I Silvia can do anything.

56:18
As soon as I finish my thesis, I can start with the project.

56:22
And nothing doesn’t do it at all. Well,

56:26
this is exciting. This is super cool. Yeah. Sylvia, your your research is incredible. I think that you’re just getting warmed up, I think that you have shined a light in an area that many of us can start looking at and start talking about in a very scientific way. And it isn’t just Oh, go out and buy this marketing product over here. We want to we want to educate people through science. And that’s what you’re doing over here. So 100, right.

56:53
And I just think it’s so cool that you are able to where people are already turning to polyphenols, and we mentioned ecgc and in quercetin before, and we’ve all been trying to compete on how do we get our body to use these nice, awesome poly phenol molecules. And really, you just took a step back and said, Guys, you really want this bigger one. Because by using this bigger poly phenol, your body is actually going to get a better bioavailability of everything that you think that you need. And it’s, it’s, it’s awesome. And it put it into practice. And quite honestly, this is a theme that we’ve seen before, over and over and over again, where we tried to give women who are who are in need of a folic acid, and they put folic acid in a little, a little pill. So they’re while they’re pregnant, that they don’t have, you know, some some birth defects. But the truth is your body wants full eight, not necessarily folic acid. So once again, it’s it’s the bigger molecule that it’s natural that your body wants. And what you did is you just basically took that same science and just blasted it into polyphenols. I think it’s awesome.

58:06
We’re going to, we’re going to get you hooked up, we had a meeting with the author of the cert diet, which in your article, you actually describe how these polyphenols were turned on the sirtuin pathway as well. And so that is a whole nother aspect of almost an epigenetic process that goes on with it. But the other really cool thing is you talked about how these polyphenols increased nitric oxide both Eric and I like to exercise so we take our polyphenols for the nitric oxide capability. So all right, Cassie dotata Silvia does Michaela let you do anything. What do you like to do for fun when you’re not always working on your thesis?

58:45
You You talked to us?

58:50
Because that’s because I’m speaking Spanglish. gasi Dr. Sylvia? Yeah.

58:56
Are Spanish or English.

59:02
We, I want to know does other than working on your thesis and working from a Khaleda? What do you like to do for fun?

59:11
This is my phone.

59:14
My phone?

59:16
Well, I in my free time, I’m an athlete. I’m a triathlete. Oh,

59:23
yeah. Are you taking your polyphenols while you train and recover?

59:28
Working on me to develop new supplements with Thomas.

59:32
Oh, look at that. Nice. Yeah.

59:35
Yeah, they are so useful. So for first of all to people, because for sports that requires a lot of exercise like triathlon for example. The the body is always always trust and the development of oxidative stress and inflammation is huge. So We are used to take just supplements with carbohydrates or proteins they are giving us just micronutrients but they are not thinking about macronutrients or polyphenols, some some molecules that could help us to reduce the fatigue and to help us to recovery.

1:00:22
What’s the most challenge? What’s the most challenging event that you’ve done in a triathlon? Have you done like an Iron Man or

1:00:29
I’m sorry to interrupt you so

1:00:34
you can fit those in a little bit quicker to understand.

1:00:37
I come from autism I before when when I was young, I was a sprinter. So for me, an Olympic distance of triathlon is just like a mortal now.

1:00:53
I think that your research is really important because Eric tried doing some triathlons also. And he understood the power of polyphenols. But the only one that he had read about was reservatrol. So he was drinking wine the entire time that he was doing the triathlon

1:01:06
data, remember?

1:01:09
Before to cycle in, it’s not the road.

1:01:13
Well, I don’t remember any of it. So it’s okay.

1:01:20
Well, Sylvia, thank you so much for joining the gacek project. This is exactly what I wanted to talk about. You did an incredible job. Your your research is amazing. And I feel like you’re just getting warmed up. I feel like she’s going to continue to uncover a lot of different things.

1:01:35
Yeah, what an awesome show to have you join us and and for all of you as a gut check project, like normal, we will put Sylvia’s research in the show notes so that if you would like to see her own articles yourself or some of the others that they can reference. That way, you know, that we’re not just we’re not just speaking, it’s, there’s there’s lots of powerful information in here. And I just can’t thank you enough Sylvia, for making time to hop on with us today. It’s

1:01:59
been it’s been awesome. And if you’re, if you’re listening to this, as always, you know, share this with people, it’s super important information that this is an incredible opportunity to have somebody like sylviane explaining this intricate science. So if you know somebody that has intestinal health problems, if the autoimmune problems, inflammation, possibly risking dementia, things like that, this is really important stuff that they all need to hear,

1:02:23
definitely. Or if you think that you’re in the market for trying some type of new polyphenol or course it’s in or you’re going to green tea to get ecgc maybe just reconsider re listen to this particular episode. And I think that we can help you with artron to find a much better larger poly phenol, that Believe it or not, Silvia here has researched thoroughly. She knows it very, very well. So,

1:02:49
Sylvia, can we be can we be a sponsor for your next triathlon? I’ll try to just give her the whole logos everywhere. And

1:02:58
I think that the corporate office is gonna love the fact that you’ve already committed so I guess we’re

1:03:05
working for my new uniform so we can talk about it. Oh, I’m

1:03:11
sorry. I think we’re a little mistake. Oh, and I mean, sponsor, the only sponsors we get are people that actually get tattoos.

1:03:17
Yeah, yeah, you we. He wants to give you a tattoo of altro until it’s kind of a permanent sponsorship.

That’s awesome, Sylvia. So much. Hey, don’t hang up yet. But everyone else thank you so much for joining. Gotcha project number 49. And like I said, we’ll make everything available to everything else to answer it.

1:03:39
No, I’m just loving it. Loving everything. I thought it would be. All right.

1:03:43
Thank you all very much.