This is super exciting. We have the 22nd episode of the gut check project. And, unfortunately, my co host Eric Rieger is actually at a conference right now. But we have a huge upgrade. We have Dr. Marisol naturopathic doctor, who is now my co host, and my lead guest both, which is awesome. So, this is going to be a super super, super fun show because what we have going on is Dr. Marisol. We’re going to talk about pooping. We’re going to talk about castor oil. We’re gonna talk about bowel habits. I’m just a simple country, butt doctor, she’s a brilliant naturopath. So we’re going to welcome Dr. Marisol.
Oh you’re awesome. Ken thanks so much. You’re so so so so humble. It’s amazing but I have to say you’re pretty incredible gi specialist honestly.
That is thank you very much but I’m just I’m just thrilled to actually have a different co host so we’re gonna let we’re just gonna bounce off each other we’re gonna let and let everything roll here.
You’re just happy it’s a cuter co-host.
Eric’s extremely attractive. If he’d shave i think that i think we’d have a more of a connection but he just won’t do that.
I know. I know he could do that whole Mr. America contest. I’m telling you. I keep telling him to go in it. I love that Dallas accent.
Before we even jump in I just want to ask one one question
How you pooping?
How am i pooping? I’m pooping like a champ. Actually, I’m pooping like a queen. Right?
So sure her moniker is that she is the queen of Thrones which is why, now it’s not just because you’re here. That’s actually how I introduce everyone, as I just asked him how you pooping?
I love it.
And I’ll go to family reunions and just walk up and say hey, how you pooping?
You know, that is the most important question that we should be asking people, honestly, or at least asking ourselves every day, right? How am I pooping? Because it’s so important. It’s like your number, you know, they get I always say, you know, poor poor poo, you know, it has a bad job where it you know, got the number two label right? Like, why is it not the number one like, in my opinion, poo is number one, not number two, the most important thing that comes out of your body
And you know, this was completely planned, but this is Episode two two and we’ve got the queen of number two.
I love it.
This is awesome.
You know, synchronicity at its best. I’m telling ya. Yeah, that’s an important question. Honestly. That’s what that’s what I’ve been asking myself for the past, gosh, 40 years of my life. Right?
So you did this in utero? You’re asking questions.
Oh, you’re so sweet. No, no, I’m definitely over forty. But because I poop well, I do look younger and better and I feel better than I did otherwise. Right? And when I was younger I really suffered with digestive problems like constipation. My mother was constipated constantly. You know, my father had IBS it was we were just a bunch of problems in the butt. Tt was just gosh, everyone always a bathroom occupied. We only had one bathroom in those days.
At home was in Ontario Canada?
Yeah, Ontario, Canada, right back up northern Canada. So we were isolated in the very north in the mining towns.
Oh, my goodness.
Very interesting experience growing up there.
Lots of family members coming out of the bathroom going, Oh, that didn’t go well ay?
That’s right. So for us, you know, that conversation was very, very open. We would talk about it at the kitchen table, we would talk about it everywhere. And then I would remember going to a friend’s house. And then I started talking about it or say something to a friend of mine and they’d be like, Oh my God, you’re so weird. Why are you talking about poo? And I’m like, I don’t know it’s interesting, and it’s what we talked about. Right? There was a common converstation at our home. It was really it was really interesting. And I keep on you know, what really changed my life though was Oprah and Dr. Oz. Ironically, the the that show they opened, I think Dr. Oz was just going on The Oprah show for a couple of episodes. And he went on in one of his first episodes. And what he did was a huge explanation about what you’re poo is saying about you. And that day when I watched that episode, something in my heart lit up. And I was just looking at him like a child in the candy store, like I just was amazed by what he was talking about, and how there was actually things you could find out about your body from your poop, and it just set me on this trajectory on this pathway to really always constantly be looking and investigating my poo and because I suffered with IBS, with so much digestive problems up until I was in my 30s when I finally you know, figured out my formula to fix it. I was looking and learning from my poo, so it was just it’s just It’s been a really cool ride to get me to becoming the queen of the thrones and what I’m doing now. And the ride on the throne that is.
Let me ask you, so when you watch this episode with Dr. Oz, were you a naturopathic doctor at the time?
No. Oh my gosh, this is talk to that we’re talking like 19 I think it could be like 1992 maybe earlier like I was around 11. It was it was early on in my life. Like it was a point, a foundational point in my life where that something just inside me clicked. It was like, I want to talk about poop that seems really important to me.
What were you doing at that time?
So at that time, I was a young young kid I was in dancing in my dreams were to become a Liza Minnelli and a doctor. I wanted to be both of those things. My Liza Minnelli dreams got crushed by a dance teacher who said I didn’t fit quite in.
Right? Which you know was now I look at that as the best gift I could have given been given in my lifetime. Because if I fit in, I would not be here talking about poo, let’s face it because it was taboo. Righ?t And so what I wanted to go into was, was being a doctor.
And so that was, was that the motive to get you to start studying naturopathic medicine?
100% Oh, because I suffered my entire life suffering suffering and you know, your purpose is within your pain 100% of the time, when you you know, you’re dealing with something, you’re trying to figure out how to make it better. And you and like someone like me, like I I, I’m always looking how to advanced, how to be better, how to improve, and I couldn’t get this part of my life improved, because IBS can be a huge beast, you know, because it’s not just only what’s going on in the digestive tract it’s so much more. So I really needed to look at all those things, and I needed I think I needed to take it into my own hands and take it and that’s why that’s what eventually led me into naturopathic school.
Oh, that’s awesome.
So I’m really blessed.
I mean, I think that one of the most common things is that when people in other fields of medicine and I think there’s so many naturopathic doctors that really focused on the gut because they realize how important it is. Yeah, I mean, I’m a little bit bias because I’m a gastroenterologist. I say that all health begins and ends in the gut.
But it really is because what I see in my clinic and I’m sure it’s exactly what you see, you can’t get away from it. If you have a sore knee, you quit running. You go to an orthopedic, whatever, you get a surgery, something like that. But when you have intestinal issues, it’s always there. So.
Always. Yeah, it’s always there and it permeates your entire life. You’re constantly dealing with it constantly thinking about it. Like I’m still in the habit of when I turned in my 20s my IBS shifted from a constipation more to a diarrhea and I’d have periods of constipation, but it was predominantly like explosive I don’t know when it’s coming diarrhea. I love this. I’ve never been able to talk so openly about this. You know, like, I’m just like, this is my love my story.
So I want to get into your I want to get more into you as the person.
You in the history. But I want to tell you that you may not even remember this.
Yeah, eah, yeah.
So I met you a couple years ago at mindshare.
And we were sitting around talking.
Oh i remember.
I myself am gluten intolerant to me a long time. Trying to figure it out. So you know, we developed Oh, little bit of housekeeping totally forgot. This episode’s been brought to you by Atrantil. Go to lovemytummy.com/spoony or go to lovemytummy.com for a discount code. I forget that my our own product is sponsoring the show. So sorry Chuck. So I did not realize I was gluten intolerant.
Until the person that helped me develop this,Brandi, who’s my research manager, we diagnosed her with celiac disease. So I would go out to lunch during work and I would I would eat gluten free sort of to support…
And it took me a long time to realize that I would not have to rush back to the office because I’d have to use the restroom. Before I’d start seeing people again and she pointed that out. And I was talking to you. I was like, yeah, it took me forever. I would go out on a run and be like a mile out. And then you have this urge to go. You don’t know if you should stop and waddle bad or whatever, and that’s when…
And then you told me a really funny story that if you’re cool with sharing I’d like you to share?
Yeah, well, gosh, I have so many funny stories like that. Are you talking about my Dominican Republic story probably the one on the bus?
The only one that you told me. No, it’s one that you had a route and that you would actually squat in somebody’s yard.
Oh, yes. That’s Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cuz I mean, I have a around my house, I have a pond. And you know, it would be that it would be explosive, right? I’d be like, suddenly, Oh, my gosh, what’s happening? And so I literally have squated in people’s lawns and their back lawns, thank God because it’s going heading in butt. You know, like when nature calls, you know, nature calls and when, when, when she’s calling in that way. It’s not. It’s not always a call that you love or really want to answer, but you got to do something about it. And you know what I like to this point, now in my life, it’s so funny and I’m re patterning this, so up until now. I would always look and see where the bathroom is, wherever I go. Because of that, right? Because there’s been so many times that I’ve had accidents or what have you like when you’re suffering I realized you just don’t know when it’s going to come and it’s it’s a can be a scary thing to live with.
We probably share very similar patients and when that the trauma that can happen I mean I have stewardesses,pilots, people that are trapped in a, you know, here in Dallas there’s commuters and the thought of that just the anxiety of that can actually trigger something.
Exactly it makes it worse and you know, you know how you say like the gut is it all and then begins with the gut. I agree. 100% like, you can’t like digestion is how you are digesting your life. Like there is no other way around it like if things are not good in your life emotionally and hence the anxieties triggering an IBS like an explosive diarrhea. Like emotionally physically what have you. It all has started in the gut,all of it.
So my research in you know, I do a lot of irritable bowel do a lot of inflammatory bowel disease. And we got really into I was one of the first doctors that really started embracing worked with Dr. Mark Pimentel when he was I was one of the people that on this study for Xifaxan and things like that and so I was hearing about bacteria, the microbiome like 10 years before everybody else was and now it’s really interesting because even my own colleagues still aren’t addressing that but the naturopathic world embraced it early on.
Oh yeah, we’re all about the bugs and bacteria right? Because we’re all about the ecology and how the body is a system right? In conventional medicine. I mean, I love you guys thank God for you guys thank God for conventional medicine. You know what we all benefit from it the the but you you tend to look at it as like one organ system, right? So but we look at it as our as it as like a garden like we’re a garden, right? And in the garden, you need things like water, you need nutrients, there’s bacteria in the soil. So for us, it wasn’t a large stretch to think oh, wow, we should be using like probiotics in our prescriptions because guess what, it’s a garden for us. So just like already our methodology about how we think about the human body, and how like in naturopathic medicine, there really aren’t specialists. Really we’re all generalists, but we just have a focus on certain areas, like some patients, some doctors and naturopathic doctors might have a focus on you know cancer care you know I have a focus on gi just like you so the majority of my patients I see a lot of IBS Crohn’s colitis, but I tend to also see things like autoimmune conditions and cancer but you know what I treat them all very similar really because I still start with the gut on everybody.
So you watch this Dr. Oz episode?
Tell me about your history. Like when does one become a naturopathic doctor? What did you do? Just give me the give me the history of the queen of thrones.
Oh, gosh, so so this is the thing so I watched Oprah Dr. Oz I was in a time of my life. I was rounder you know, I was I was, you know, isolated from society, like not society. But from, you know, kids kids didn’t like me. I was the strange little Spanish girl who brought sardine sandwiches. It didn’t smell good you know?
We know. So. Up in, you know, that was my life back then and…
Were you born in Canada?
I was born in Canada. Yep. So my father’s from Spain and my mother’s from South America. Where in South America?
Beautiful, beautiful country like it’s…
Se habla espanol?
Se hablo espanol. I’m always trying to get my teenage kids to speak Spanish because you know, it’s such a gift to be able to speak Spanish,
I’ve got my he’s soon to be 15 year old, I got my 15 year old who is will only speak Spanish at the house. And there are times I’m like
So that’s, you know, that’s good though. That’s good because, you know, Spanish opens up doors in so many different ways. And you know, like I love coming to this in Canada, where I’m at, I don’t run into too many Latinos, but when I’m in the States, especially Dallas, and you know, like the more southern states, it’s awesome. I love it because I’m constantly speaking Spanish. It’s just like, this is great. I want to move to America. I love the states.
I would say that my, my Spanish really took off when I was in training in San Antonio.
Yeah. Almost every patient i saw…
And you know what I see patients because of the languages that I speak. Many of them come and search me out. It’s super cool, but back to my story. What had happened was that I you know, I wasn’t living a happy life as a kid. I was, you know, isolated from the crowd and I was also very anxious, right, anxiety was a huge predominant factor because of my isolation from the group, you know, I was I was a different kid. And so I was but I got diagnosed with asthma instead of anxiety. And so the medical system kind of failed me when I was younger. And unfortunately it put me on a series of lots of drugs lots of prednisone, which made me go from a you know, a plump cute to a very overweight teenager and it
Why were you on prednisone?
Cuz was I was having such anxiety and but it would manifest and look like an asthma attack. But the doctor never even examined my lungs he never he never did a physical exam
There was no oh no yeah, this is back in the day. Yeah, nothing was done. So you can imagine my what I thought of the conventional medical system and family medical doctors at that point in time, right I didn’t really have very cause here I was, like, you know, medicating with prednisone to reduce my asthma attacks, which I wasn’t really every having them it was all anxiety. So I was I was I was the case I was really mismanaged and it is made me gain more weight isolated me more my anxiety got worse as I got fortunately my mom got to the point where she’s like you know what i’m done with you taking these drugs and she just pulled me off of them.
How old were you when this?
I think by that time I was around 15-16 so I remember going into high school and still being a bit overweight and then once appropriate the prednisone was gone. My weight started to go down.
And it’s not just that it’s not just the weight but the acne the inability to sleep that’s a horrible drug.
It’s a tough drug it was a tough drug to be on as a. I was, the acne didn’t affect me. Definitely sleep was a problem. Like so lots of my systems weren’t working very well. Right like I like it. My body definitely wasn’t happy.
I like it. I like stories like this because it shows you know you said that your pain is you know, your your pain point ends up becoming your your purpose.
And for anybody that’s ever had a child, that’s 15 and unhappy and anxious
Gosh, it’s so hard.
You know, and then to see you take that and then become really this incredible brand where you really put yourself out there if anybody gets a chance look at her YouTube channel. There’s videos of her on the toilet talking. It’s really funny.
It’s awesome. I love it and I get to be my Liza Minnelli right? Because I get to do it but my own way talking about poo. It’s so perfect!
So you’re 15 you’re going into high school, you finally get pulled off the drugs? What happened?
Yeah, well, then then my life just suddenly becomes much better, right? But my anxiety is still there because that’s still not really being managed. And, you know, so but I do lose weight, I’m looking better and being accepted more, which is great when you’re in high school, you know, I still have a lot of confidence issues, of course, because you know, you spend the greater majority of your life at that time, you know, being unconfident, unhappy with who you are anxious, you know, it’s not not a nice nice, not a nice life. And then you know, someone tells me to go into a beauty pageant. So this is where I’ve got the queen. And this is actually what helps to build me It builds me up. So I you know, entered it in the hopes of I didn’t think I would win it because I didn’t think about myself. as attractive or anything or that I didn’t like up until then I didn’t believe it right I didn’t believe that I could achieve anything like that. I but I could achieve the talent because I was very talented I played the piano and I danced. So I went into the competition and and I won the talent and I oh no I didn’t win the talent I won Miss Congeniality, which was like awesome to me sounds like at least I want something.
How do you win the Miss Congeniality part?
You’re just really pleasant and nice person like I am i guess.
You know what? I’m going to say if this was a Canadian beauty pageant where everybody’s pleasant and nice. Winning Miss Congeniality is a serious deal.
That’s right? Oh, that’s a really awesome way of thinking about it. I need to think about it more that way. That’s wonderful.
Yeah, I mean, like you would almost think like in other
Like if you’re not I don’t want to single out a certain part of the United States. Yeah, certain parts all you gotta do is just be like, say, hey, and you won.
That’s so awesome.
Instead of flipping somebody off.
There you go, but it what ended up happening is I actually won it and and me winning it. It was first time I became a queen, and it’s one of the reasons why my brand is also called the queen of the thrones is that it just it just built my confidence. So I just needed that one little vote of somebody else seeing the magic that I had inside of me. So that really changed my mindset changed how I was working and expressing myself as a person out here in this world. So that was really cool. And then, you know, took me through travels, I started doing more pageants, more, more, more, more of that and, and then it came time to go into high school into university and I, my mother was like, go be the doctor, go be the doctor. And I was like, I’m not being the doctor. I don’t want to be a doctor. Look what happened to me. I was taking prednisone and I was like, 180 pounds by the time I was like, you know, 13 like that. No, I don’t want to, I don’t I’m not going to go become a doctor and do that to anybody. Because that’s what my that’s what my paradigm was. I looked at medical doctors at the time, that they didn’t help you that they they they just gave you drugs that weren’t good for you. And a lot of people think this, you know, and I still want to correct that. Because there’s a time and a place for every single medicine. There’s a time and a place for prednisone. You know if the patient is assessed properly? And you may need them. Right like in an acute flare up of Crohn’s and colitis and you can’t manage it. Prednisone would’nt you say?
Oh, yeah, this is what I. Like my biggest problem is as a gastroenterologist is having people that possibly have been mismanaged for a very long time. And then they come in and they’ve got osteopenia, and they’re 30 years old and they’ve got all these other issues they’re morbidly obese they’ve been on and off prednisone and other options have not been discussed. So the way that I view prednisone is is exactly that. It’s a very powerful drug, but you only want to be on it twice in your disease course. Once to see if you go into remission the next one to say okay, now the we pull you off for the second time. What are we going to put you on so that you don’t have to back?
Yeah, yeah, see and that’s that’s that’s that’s a great doctor. And and that’s that’s what there are so many great doctors out there. Right? It’s like any profession, right? Like there’s, you know, great naturopaths and there’s not so great naturopaths and there’s great doctors and not so great doctors. There’s great lawyers and I don’t know if that works. Like, no, I know really good lawyers, like I love my lawyer. So, you know, like, they’re in all professions, it’s like that. So you just have to search and find the one that really resonates with you and just just you need to listen for these key things, right? Like a doctor who is saying these things to you, like, you know, we’ll try prednisone, but that’s a dangerous drug. Like it’s not something that should you should be on, managed for years. Like I was on it for years. So I ended up instead going into languages and business. So that was where my school ended up taking me.
Yeah. Because one thing I knew that I loved talking, and I loved people, and I figured, you know, one of the greatest platform to do that would be business. And so that led me there. And then I ended up going into actually my first very first job coming out of school was it was completely aligned in the stars was to work for a homeopathic pharmaceutical company from Germany called Heel
Heel. And they are an unbelievable force in natural medicine they created this product called Traumeel it’s no longer available in the United States they pulled out. But it was available and people out there will understand what if they’ve ever been in the natural world they’ve heard of Traumeel, an excellent anti inflammatory actually works very similar to a prednisone, but natural. It’s an incredible thing. And there’s no side effects to it. So in Germany it’s number one.
Yeah, so one of the things like we would as we’re launching Atrantil in the EU and stuff, oh, my goodness, though, so we, we have our own. We got recognized in Canada. So we have our own…
That’s great. Good
NPI number, whatever it is that you guys do.
NPN. Natural product number. Yeah.
So we got our own NPN. And then we were not expecting the added expense of having to translate everything into French.
So that one was that was one of those non budgeted type things. So we’re in Canada now. We’re bilingual. But dang those Germans. They are strict.
Oh, yes. Oh yeah, they’re quality control. Everything is just phenomenal. And that’s great. I think that’s fantastic. I think anything that we do in our life, if it’s worth doing is worth doing with excellence, you know, and and I loved working for that company. I was so fortunate, you know, I was able to train with the best, the best doctors in Europe and Germany and Belgium, you know, sports, medical doctors, like gastroenterologists. It was just awesome. Like, I got the opportunity to see the world from so many different places around the world.
Where did you travel with that company?
how old are you when you’re doing all this?
So I would go to Germany, I’d go to the United States, South America, it was just, it was just everywhere. Those are the main main places, but it was it was phenomenal. Like what an experience, but what it did is it introduced me to other practitioners. So that’s where I got my first flavor of what a naturopathic doctor was, and a chiropractor, and then it opened up a whole new world to me of a different form of medicine. You know, a medicine that was inclusive, that really focused on from what I knew, really focused on assessing the patient, right because we know up until where we’re at only what we have had experience in our lives. And my experience with the medical system was was one of not being well managed, you know, because even then later on in my, in my teenage or sorry, adult years when I started going to things like birth control, you know, I wasn’t well advised on birth control and I, you know, went on a different pathway for that. So, so many so many issues there, right, like I was given Depo-Provera, and Depo-Provera just actually aggravated a lot of my digestive symptoms. It also made me bloat on certain points of time, you know, my period was messed up when I went off of it. So, you know, that was my perception of medical system. But then when I saw naturopaths and chiropractors I go, hey, there’s different ways to do things. And there always is, right?
I’m about 26 or 27. I’m about 26 or 27. And then I finally like, just something inside me when am I I was back up in my hometown I was as that sales rep. I was speaking to a doctor when my good good doctor clients, and I was teaching him and training him all the methodology of what Heel taught which was something called homo toxicology, the study of toxins within the human system. So it’s so phenomenal. It talks about the you know, how disease becomes manifests and how it reverses. And how, you know, first signs of disease are things like discomfort or, or, or discharge, right? Like if in our world, it would be like mucus and our stools are diarrhea. And then after that, it becomes inflammation. And it’s just like the different steps of the pathology of how you know how disease manifests and how to reverse it. It was super phenomenally interesting.
That’s really cool. I mean it’s basically all in, in my opinion, all of disease really comes down to inflammation. If we can stop the inflammatory process, we can stop cells from being damaged and blah, blah, blah, blah. So…
I’m gonna add I’m an add in stress. Because I think to me, it’s like a two a two prong thing. I think people will have like, it’ll either be the like, you know, chicken or the egg. It’s they’ll start with the stress and then the inflammation comes about or the inflammation starts and then they have more stress. So then it’s just like, and then it’s you know that snowball effect down the hill but that big snowball is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. Have you ever seen a snowball living in Dallas?
A snowball. It’s…so
Basically two snowflakes will fall a year and there will be like 700 accidents
Oh that’s so funny oh my gosh
That’s very it’ll it’ll snow like once a year just kind of dusting and everything will just shut down. Everything will shut down. It’s just like disaster mode.
So funny. Yeah but it’s so it inflammation and stress are really really key. And you know, like if I look at myself and even just my history like that, that anxiety I was dealing with was full on stress like that was of course messing up my digestive tract, right it was making making my digestion feel totally off.
Trying to move your mic here so that we can get a little better picture of the queen of thrones here. So you know, this the whole studios in an adjustment you know this is two two but everybody wants to see the Beautiful, Dr. Queen of Thrones here so there we go.
But yeah, so so it was a great introduction and what an amazing methodology to learn. So I was training at that point, naturopathic doctors who are top in their class, treating cancer, a G like GI focused doctors, it was awesome. And what ended up happening is this doctor in my hometown said to me, he goes, What are you doing being the sales rep, what are you doing? He’s like, you need to go be the doctor. You need to go be the doctor. And again, it was one of those foundational points in my life, you know, someone believes in you, and it’s just enough, you know, gas in that engine to make you go phoom right, just jump on. So and I you know, when when I get an idea, and when he when he planted that idea in my mind, that was it. I was like, I literally called the company the next day and said I was quitting.
Oh my. You don’t play around.
I don’t play around. You know, when I know it feels right. It feels right. And that felt right. I just I knew it 100%. So what I what I did is the company actually wouldn’t let me go that fast. So they actually prepared my journey to meet more doctors and really made it great. So then I went to naturopathic school at 28. But I didn’t have my sciences because I had done a business degree. So I actually had to like read get all my sciences done. So you know, when you go back to school after you’ve been working, making money, you know, and you have to you have these big mountains you have to succumb to right, like, I literally had like Everest, I had to go back and do my basic sciences. I had a lot to do, right? Luckily, there was ways I could do it faster and get my basic sciences and I did that. And I started school and I loved it. I was just like, this is where I need to be. I had to really focus on the sciences and get really in depth those first few years because they were a little bit more challenging because I didn’t have you know, all the years of the science background that that that other people did. And I went in as a mature student, but it was an amazing and amazing experience.
Had school always been easy for you?
No, no, no. And you know why? So let me explain this. I am brilliant and I don’t I say that in the most humble way, I’m my, my superpower is really to be able to grab things, complex, complex ideas and simplify them. So I’m very fortunate in that way. But because I didn’t have confidence in myself, because of all my experiences as a child and what was happening, I wasn’t excelling in school at all. And I don’t think that the school system was meant for my mind and how my mind works. You know, like I if if a concept if a simple concept is skipped through, and it jumps to the advanced concept without going through the basics, I get lost. So there was many times in like math class or such, like fractions, I couldn’t get my mind into fractions. I couldn’t understand the concept of it, right. And so they jumped to the next step, and then I would be lost and my marks would would, would be that way. So I had to work hard.
So going back to school would have been somewhat stressful for you.
I mean, just the idea that I’m gonna quit this job. I’m gonna go back to school and I’m going to revisit a lot of my insecurities. That’s impressive.
Yeah. And, you know, to the and thank you for that. That means a lot. The the impetus also to go back to school was also that I was like, you know what I had been to see a lot of naturopaths and I had been to see a lot of doctors. And you know, my gi specialist at the time was like, I’m sorry about your luck. There’s nothing you can do. And I’m like, Okay, well, thanks. I’m like, that’s not you know, that’s not the answer I want but another, you know, another mismanagement.
Yeah, the one that I mean, I always joke around that everybody, all the patients that come to see me and I’m sure you had this also, which is, you go to the doctor, you wake up from your endoscopy colonoscopy, and they’re like, great news. It’s all normal. You just have IBS.
And then you walk out and you’re like I still feel like shit, exactly. What does that mean? Now I just have a label.
Exactly. And you know, even with an naturpaths I had seen before going back naturopathic school, they had none of them had tested my food sensitivities, and they just put me on these diets, for my food intolerances. They just put me on these diets that actually made me feel worse. So I kept on like losing confidence in the entire system. And I was like, well, maybe I can go back and become a naturopath and I can figure it out for me, right because I was that determined because I’m like, there has to be a better way to live. There really has to be a better way to live. And you know, and of course you know, go back into school it was challenging because I wasn’t an excellent student, but I did become that but it did aggravate all my IBS symptoms. So during school I was I was a mess again, right and I had to work through it. I had to walk through it and try my best. And then finally someone tested my food intolerances and my sensitivities. And the thing was this is that all the naturopathic and cleansing diets before that time, were all based on rice and almonds and you know, you would take away the gluten and take away the dairy but you’d still be eating the grains like the rice and one of my big I’m Spanish background, you know, guess what I’ve been exposed to the majority of my of my life, you know, my gut is constantly being exposed to piyaya, maybe and piyaya is made out of rice, and I have a very permeable gut because I’m suffering with IBS my whole life. So what, what what food molecule is going to be elevated?
And then of course the South American component where you can add a bunch of beans to it so.
Yep, love those beans do exactly right.
I love me some piyaya.
Oh man, I love me piyaya too.
But the thing was I had to I had to be stay away from rice for a period of time because I was just over consuming it and it had become an intolerance to me my body was overreacting to it. And that’s like, That’s awesome, right that I was able to figure that out through school. So that was one of the components. Super like good great experience. I’ve been really, really blessed in my life I’m so thankful for.
It’s really cool and I like hearing the background stories of somebody like you because you’ve over although you’ve you’ve been able to make changes, you make adjustments you pivot, and then you make this life change. And then you revisit some of these insecurities, which only makes you stronger.
And only allows you to continue to grow as a person. So then, you get into naturopathic school. What was that like?
Yeah, so it was a total shit show. I’m not sure if I could say that word on here but…
Ya no, this show you can basically say anything you want.
Oh, fantastic. I’ve been really like, you know, trying to be very prim and proper here but I really wanted to bring out my bad ass.
When we were on the spoony network or when we’re still on the Spoony network, oh that’s the label to Spoony right there.
Shout out to Ron and all those guys but it was pretty fun and because I was concerned about that also you want to like be normal and everything and so they’re like look in our world just do not say GD or the F word and basically everything else is okay.
Cuz I say shit a lot. Patients say shit a lot to me.
Of course they do you know my my first book coming out in the in the spring is called Oh shit.
I saw that.
I cannot wait. Yeah.
That is really cool.
But you know why I labeled it oh shit because I was I used to say when I would be ready to about to have an accident. I’d be like, Oh shit. Like, and if you look at us, what we do is when we have a moment of anxiety, what do we say? Oh shit. Oh shit, right. So that’s the whole energy of it. So the book is gonna be really great. I’m super excited for it, but I’m back in school so I’m in school…
Just to clarify so that I saw that the title of the book is doesn’t actually say shit you do the…
Yes I do the little star I do I do. I’m keeping it clean. You know, the reality is is that like Northern Ontario you swear a lot like I grew up in Northern Ontario. Like lots of truckers like we said, I don’t want to stereotype anybody but I just grew up in a place where I learned to swear a lot right so and the majority of the words I would swear with shit typically so that and you know, and I like I like saying like I’m a badass because I am a badass. You know, but it’s it’s uh, yeah, I gotta keep it clean you know, got it gotta do those things.
So right now we’re in a shit show.
Which we’re just kind of bounce around so I love a I’ve got a little add Yeah, like bouncing around. So we just went forward in time we got a book coming out. We’ll talk about that. But now you’re at the shit show called naturopathic school or are you going into graduate school?
Yeah, I mean, the school is phenomenal. Like the knowledge and education you learn is great, but you know what the volume is a lot. Because like, it’s like we’re talking like we not only have to learn everything that conventional doctors learn, we also then have to learn what naturopathic doctors learn. So the amount of material that we have to go through is incredible unless you’re constantly being I mean, I’m sure medical school also is very stressful. And it takes it takes a bit of life out of you, you know, but which you regain amazingly, afterwards. But it was a lot, a lot to learn a lot to learn at once. And so and because and because I had been in the past challenged in my learning, I would invest a lot more time than the average person would. So I was taking it to that next level, because I really did. You know, when you go back, a lot of the people in my program were younger, you know, they hadn’t lived, they hadn’t worked. And, you know, a lot of them just cared about getting good grades on their exams. And you know, the typical mentality of students.
Well, it’s a typical mentality of a graduate for sure, cuz they worked that hard to get where they’re at. And then all of a sudden they’re amongst everybody else. So like in medical school, at least in medical school, I went to, everybody was at the top of the class when they came from undergrad, and all of a sudden to be the top of the class there. It’s, it’s an ego blow. And a lot of people just view it as a badge. Like, I’m just gonna learn this and crush this and do whatever, but to actually realize no, I’m learning stuff to apply to people later on, is hard to do.
And then like, I remember there was one girl who was like in a we’re in a class and she’s like, lifting her hand. She’s like, Can we just like know, like, what topics you are actually going to be testing? And I like actually flicked her in the head. She was say me, I never because I was like, I looked her and she turned around, she’s like, I go, I go, you are going to be a doctor, taking care of people’s lives. That is a huge responsibility. And if they’re not going to come in with just what you learned on the test, like honey, you I could do that because I was an older mature student, right? She was younger, and we were friends and you know, and she and she loved me so I got away with it. But you know, I said to her, I go, you know, you have a it’s an enormous responsibility to be a doctor and you know, I feel so honored and blessed and like you do to Ken I know because we’ve had so many conversations like this.
That is I want to not to digress from this at all, but this is a great opportunity. I got our good friend, Tony. Just came out with his book and your book, I can’t wait to read your book.
But Tony’s awesome.
Tony’s awesome love this guy, this whole book. It’s called playing God, but it’s basically exactly what you’re talking about. And he brings up an example in there, where there’s this star resident, the star resident that’s kind of competing with him about this plastic surgery. But Tony got they went and took a test. And he did well on it. And then there was like medical emergency the next day, and he figured something out that and he said the patient’s life, and the other resident didn’t like it, like How’d you know how to do that? He’s like, well, it was on the test, but it’s all about studying to apply.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Studying to apply. And It’s so important, right? So I would definitely spend like, prob I would say like my 82 Gosh, probably 120 hours I would be I would be studying or in school. So it was intense. And you know, I really I unfortunately really hurt myself in in in that that time and by the time I got to third year moving into my fourth my fourth my residency year, I actually I felt completely ill like chronic fatigue. I couldn’t get out of bed I couldn’t I couldn’t do anything. I was just I was really really stuck.
Yeah. And and at that time, which was scary was that I was actually doing all the right things. I was eating all the right diets for me, I was taking all the right supplements I was you know, doing all the right things that I could do. And I you know, had a really heartfelt conversation with my lovely mother, who you know, normally was one who just constantly pushed me forward, push, push, push, push, push, but this was the time in my life where she said, uou know what, it’s time for you to rest and take the time that you need, so you can get back to being you.
I thought she was gonna put you back on prednisone
No, no, thank God. No, my mom my mom was always trying to get me on to witches brew right it was like she was she already have that latin American you know, let’s do like the natural I got some herb.
No I would like I said when I was studying in San Antonio not uncommonly the whole you know, the whole chicken eggs under the bed kind of thing and whatever.
Absolutely raised part of our culture and our tradition is so awesome but and you know what and I did that and but more more importantly than that what I did was this there had been something that was recommended to me at every health food store I had gone to as a sales rep for that natural company, every naturopathic doctors office, every chiropractor I had talked to every every person I had been in contact with with something called the castor oil pack. And I had said no that I wasn’t going to do it for the longest time probably about 15 years at that point. Because it was messy I felt like it was too much time it was a hassle didn’t make sense to me. I’m like how can this thing that’s like you pour castor oil, you know, which is you know what, you know, people that live in the Caribbean people are like oh god don’t give me castor oil because they you know take it weekly to you know purge so that they prevent their parasites right this kind of like cultural tradition.
I didn’t know that.
Caribbean islands? Yeah, Caribbean Indian Indian culture as well too. They do that weekly one tablespoon castor oil to purge the gut. Right. So So I was thinking like, I don’t want to do that like because I had a misconception of it and how is castor oil put on your body topically gonna go in your body? And how is that going to work and help my gut and you know, just miraculously improve my IBS, right? I’m like, whatever. I didn’t believe it. That was my like, cuz I was also you know, my sister’s a dentist. So I also have that mindset where it’s like, you know, I am very, very, very scientific and I am and the woo woo’s. I’m into both of them. I don’t want to call naturopath a woo woo but you know, that yeah, I mean, it is it’s like, you know, Earth medicine and like the herbs and then the homeopathy and all these different things like just different tools, mindset. These are all different tools, and I think they just were I think they work so good together with Science and these tools are now like natural things are also getting a little bit more science behind them which is excellent and and experience helps too but I had to figure out something different I needed to do something different so then what I said to myself was this you know what? I am going to try that that castor oil pack I don’t care if it’s a shitty mess whatever I’m going to do it I’m going to try it and I’m going to see if it’s going to help me.
Now wait a minute. What were your symptoms that you were experiencing at this time?
Well, it was it was severe chronic fatigue including like constipation alternating with diarrhea so I had mono antibodies so I was you know and and and stress honestly like I think to me I think the really the biggest problem was just that it was stress like that the stress was just so enormous and then I was putting so much pressure on myself to be the best that I could be so that I could be the best doctor because I wanted to be no I need no I’m I needed to be the best doctor ever because this was super important to me because of what happened to me as child.
So what I like getting the history of this and I like listening to your struggle because people don’t see that and what they do is they’ll go on your YouTube video and say, Oh, she’s got it all together.
She’s so amazing, perfect.
Yeah, and people don’t realize that you you had kind of a difficult childhood you turn around and then in your quest to become a really good doctor you destroyed yourself. People don’t realize that that’s the kind of effort that’s the kind of mentality it takes to become the queen of Thrones. And all people see is this end product.
Yeah exactly. You know what we are one of those this quote this weekend one of my friends said, it’s like you know, people see in the one minute of success what people have been doing behind the scenes for like 10 years, right or from in anyone’s case it’s like their lifetime before that like everything that is created who they are up until this moment right now.
There’s a saying in the entrepreneur world it only it only took 10 years to be an overnight success.
That’s right, exactly that right like and that’s the thing is that you know, it’s like every like everything I look at my life, everything that every journey every every every shitty point, you know those things shitty points are so bad. And now I guess, I’m so happy I swear this is like awesome. A whole new.You know, all those points, they’re all part of your journey and it’s so important you have to honor them.
Do you have a favorite spanish swear word?
No, because my mother wouldn’t really I know my mother wouldn’t really like teach us that right and so because we were in Northern Ontario there weren’t too many Spanish people we never got indoctrinated with, with, you know, any of the spanish swear words. My parents were very clean. So we did. I mean, maybe the worst one would be like hijo de puta. I feel bad when I say I’m like my mom, like, no, don’t say that. Right.
We’re gonna send a clip of that to your mom.
Oh, no. She’s seen and she’s up in heaven.
Oh that’s right! I’m sorry.
She passed way this year. Yeah.
Do you want to talk about that for a second.
Yeah, we can. Yeah, totally. So my mom, you know, she she’s also a big driver in why I do what I do because of her suffering with constipation. And, you know, I truly wish that she would have dealt with her constipation earlier on and had the availability of better doctors to be able to get better because you know what people who have constipation for their lives, especially women and overweight then they tend to be highly likely to get some type of hormonal breast hormonal cancers, right? Like breast cancer, right? You have all this weight, you know, constipation, it just it just it’s something that can happen very easily. And, you know, my mother’s, you know, was one of my very first cancer patients actually, but fortunately she beat stage four breast cancer. She beat it.
At stage 4?
She did comp a mix of we were so fortunate we actually like we’re very personal close personal friends with the oncologist at our hospital because they’ve actually kind of given her nothing’s really going to happen. But we were able to get her breast removed we were able to like do both chemo and radiation. And then she she, you know, suped it all up with adding and all the natural stuff on the side with naturopathic medicine and she did awesome and she survived 10 years 10 years and then what end up happening was it was a stroke. A hemorrhagic stroke out of the blue. But you know, we got 10 more years, which is amazing. And you know, you know, but if she is still like to this day if she had worked better on, I think being better at her bowels. When you’re better with your bowels Your life is simply better. Like it’s it’s just it’s just the way it goes you feel better when you poop better, right? Like there’s no…
Well I think that if you have a if you go to your website, you’ve got the 50 shades of poo.
I love that. Yes, my fifty shades poo. My nasty little secret.
So she’s got her 50 shades of poo, which you gotta talk about that that really, when we see how people are digesting a lot of that actually can come down to as a kind of a window into what’s happening in your body. And so yeah, yeah. So I’m so sorry that your mom died this year.
Thanks Ken. Yeah, you know, it has been definitely a huge journey and a lot of it has brought up a lot of different things because she was truly the biggest believer in me, you know, and so to lose that force behind me, but I haven’t lost her and that’s the thing truly like she’s actually here constantly and like, I feel her presence completely. And so I feel guided by her and, and her passing actually just makes me makes me must have this and help more people more, you know, because my goal is to actually reach a billion people and I will do that this is a must in my life. And and the reason why is because, you know, 20% of our population actually deals with like constipation or some form of digestive, like problems. That’s a billion people around the world.
Oh, it’s huge.
In in certain countries. It’s really interesting because when you look at different countries that have digestive issues, it really is the Western world. And now as other countries become more westernized, they’re starting to develop these same things.
Latin America. I mean, Brazil is one of the largest IBS populations also. US Brazil, and then we have these different countries and so, you know, we’ve always been taught that 20% of the US population has irritable bowel syndrome. And there’s that is my explanation as to why we have this huge increase of autoimmune disease and all these other things.
Yeah. And the thing is what’s really cool is this. So I found stats on constipation, it’s 14% in North America 21% in Latin America countries. 7.8% in Asian countries. So it just goes to show right like, and you know, Latin America, like I could say that being a Latin American is that it is it is definitely getting corrupted with a lot of the North American, like the SAD diet, like the standard American diet is really infiltrating into that.
The SAD diet. Stsndard American diet. I have never thought about
Yeah, right. Like, because it’s like, I mean, you know, and not all Americans are a SAD die, right? Many of us are like, I feel like I’m an American. Many Americans do live a good healthy lifestyle, right. But there are those people who are eating a lot of packaged, processed, you know, fast food, and that’s the majority of their of their diet. And that’s the type of diet that will really, you know, like be a detriment to your system. And you know, Latin American countries are taking that all up as well to, you know, and I think just just sometimes too, they do eat a very starchy diet and heavy starches also can be a problem for constipation. So that could be a thing too. But it’s it’s it’s really interesting and this is a must for me now like, really I want to help people because my mom’s passing I know I probably would have gotten another 10-15 years had her constipation not be a problem and then her not having cancer and not having those, those struggles to go through in life.
How did your sister handle it?
My sister, so interesting, you know, she couldn’t even watch her pass, which was she ended up coming into the room to watch her pass, but she didn’t want to. And I found that very interesting, because, you know, she’s a healthcare professional as well too, but she’s a dentist, so she doesn’t necessarily deal with death and dying. You know, I’ve seen quite a few patients death, and I’ve been at their bedside for death and dying with my cancer patients. So I’m more used to it so I could deal with it, but my sister keeps on going. That’s what she does. So I’m a little bit of the emotional wreckage you know, that like falls apart and is like, you know, crying for months on end. I actually took a sabbatical from clinical practice for six months,
Yeah, I’ve never done that before but I just need I needed time. Because that was that was an important it’s it’s one of the hardest things that you deal with when you lose a parent. Right? Like, like the only other thing that I think could be worse would be to lose a child. You know, cuz you never want your children to leave before you. But losing a parent is detrimental but it has also given me a lot of strength. So I feel very honored to have been on that journey with her.
Yeah, I lost my dad when I was 21 before I went into medicine but, but I always find it interesting when medical people have to deal with death or illness. And you know, you just start looking at things a little bit differently,
Huge differently. And it’s funny, we couldn’t do anything for my mother we had no, there was nothing to save her in the stroke being hemorrhagic like is just like she was bleeding like they could have gone and got into her brain but we said you know, what are we doing? Like that’s not going to be good quality of life. We don’t even know she’d come out and she would be a vegetable. And we figured you know, this is her time. And and when I did see my sister was this is that her and I both tried to become the doctors when our mom got the stroke. Right? And but I, I not so well because I get too emotional. So I’m like, I don’t want to treat family like you can’t do it was too close to you right? But my sister got into like Dr mode, right? You want to see the scans you want to see this and I’m like thank God at least you can do that and I’ll I’ll be the emotional support you will be. So we’re good team that way. So thank God.
So getting back to when you finally discovered this castor oil pack. So what did it do for you?
Well, immediately I started sleeping better. And immediately I started noticing that my my bowel movements were better, better formed. I’d had them a little bit more frequently or when I did have them I’d actually go more. So I’d have more eliminate all at once. So I was pretty impressed with that and then and then you know of course I was also doing other things I was getting IV therapy. I was I was doing other things on top of that. Because I wanted to get better and I wanted to get back into my life right. I felt like I was having to take a big pause and a break and I wasn’t happy with I really wanted to be back in the joy of what I was learning and doing. And so I started, I committed to myself to do these packs every single night because I wanted to feel better and that’s what I did and and and I thought I would have to take a lot more but only and I ended up having to take one little semester and I got right back into the groove of things. And honestly, I feel it was the castor oil packs that really did something different for my body. And and what I ended up learning and researching years later was that it it of course it works on the digestive system and on the guts and on inflammation like castor oil is a well known, you know, topical, anti inflammatory, it does all those things. But what it did more than anything was that it changed my stress state. It moved me from being in the stress to sympathetic, you know, hardcore, constantly wired to be stressed out. And it moved me into the paused state which is like the parasympathetic and the relaxed state. And I think that above and beyond everything is what I needed more than anything, and I needed to be able to sleep better so that I could I could heal better at night, right? Because I wasn’t healing good at night because I couldn’t sleep. Right. I would spend hours just like in my mind.
I think that that is it’s really interesting. And I want to geek out. About castor oil. I’m not very familiar with it, certainly the topical application of it I did a little bit of reading about it. But what’s let’s get back to the whole stress aspect. It is so fascinating that I have so many people that will go through a profoundly stressful period, and then develop a significant disease. It’s almost like insult to injury. Yeah, I’ll have people to go through a bad divorce and then they’ll show up with crohn’s. They’re like what there has to be some sort of correlation, all of this with the cortisol and just these inflammatory markers that are all going up. And then don’t even get me started. I think that the three pillars of health are our gut, brain and sleep. Basically, we need to make sure that we decrease the inflammatory process in our brain. We need to protect the gut, and you gotta sleep.
See I say eat sleep, poop. But the brain is in there for sure, I think the brain is just an extension of the gut. That’s my that’s my perception of it.
I’ve got, I’ve got a talk that I give and quite a bit of data where I can actually show that they have taken. And so a lot of lot of traditional doctors will not discuss leaky gut. And you know, but if you say, Oh, it’s intestinal permeability, maybe that’ll be a little bit more, but it’s really well known and they’re documented does some people say there’s not science, I’ve got thousands of articles documenting a lot of this, something really wild. And this is how I end up telling my patients I’m like, Look, they did a study where they took human digestive tissue and they put it with inflammatory markers. And then I checked the permeability of it. And they actually showed the different things like zonulin like leaked through and stuff, and then they had different sizes. So there, that’s an in vitro study, then there’s not a blood brain barrier, same exact inflammatory markers, and they, they show that the blood brain barrier becomes leaky. So we’ve got leaky gut, leaky brain, it’s all tied together,
All tied together. And then so this is a thing to talking about cortisol Is that the research that I’ve looked at is mainly that my focus has been a lot on the stress component and cortisol and and my research has shown that whenever there’s an elevated level of cortisol, your gut is impermeable so it goes completely together is that you know like it’s that inflammation back to the chicken and egg we were talking about earlier not the chicken under the bed but the chicken and the egg right the chicken and the egg where it’s like it’s you got inflammation first and then you get stressor you get stress and then you get inflammation so it that’s that that whole that’s what’s playing out there with that.
Alright now let’s talk geeking out. You are now going to become a teacher to me.
Absolutely! Love it!
So castor oil. You on your website you have it is the castor oil pack that you wear.
So just tell just teach me just I don’t know shit about castor oil.
Well, I’m going to show you how to shit with castor oil. But not early. So we all know like Castor Oil of course you know that’s it’s it’s approved by Health Canada. It’s approved by the FDA orally for use to for bowel movements or for constipation right and actually at the turn of the century castor was one of those oils that was you know, everywhere and all the little like apothecary pharmacies, right and they would use it along with like things like Ipecac and those all those old herbs. So castor oils are super cool. castor oil actually is a plant of vegetable vegetable plants, some water in a vegetable plant and this vegetable plant actually what’s so cool about it is that the bean will kill you but the oil that is extracted from it will heal you so the bean is actually used in like warfare. It’s like a biological weapons that it’ll kill you it’ll stop your DNA replication and they’ll kill you within like six hours if you take enough of a dose.
The whole been like if you just eat it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the bean I mean can kill you. So it’s, like so many patients have seen it on like CSI and they’re always like, Oh my god, I heard that on CSI about like the castor bean. It’s like a biological warfare. It’s neat. But the oil when it’s extracted and cold pressed doesn’t contain the component that kills you which is the ricin component. So yeah.
Oh wait. Ricin?
Yeah, that’s from he castor bean.
Yeah so ricin it kills you right? It kills your ear it like block your receptors.
Oh! I had no idea.
Oh yea it’s potent neural toxin. Ricin comes from castor bean?
Yeah. Castor bean yeah ricin comes from the castor bean. So so the castor oil though however does not contain that, but how castor oil actually like if you were to take a spoonful of castor oil to actually have a bowel movement. What ends up happening is it’s not the people think that it’s the ricin that makes you you know have explosive diarrhea. That’s not the way it works. Castor oil stimulates nitric oxide production within the gut, nitric oxide production within the gut which nitric oxide of course is healing Of course, you know, that simulates paracel in it’s a speak to me about it. About nitrous oxide.
Oh, nitric oxide. That’s that. So nitric oxide, the reason why I’m super interested into it and we know that that is the molecule that stimulates vascel dilation, which increases blood flow. And so we’re real big in nitric oxide because we have been working with some sports medicine people without Antrantil, and I’m here once again, plug Atrantil, sponsor of the show. So what as it turns out the polyphenols in there, they actually have been shown to increase nitric oxide. So for sports recovery. And it decreases reactive nitrogen species reactive oxygen species so so we’re so we’re super big about nitric oxide.
So and this is what one of the actions of castor oil does. And so which is which is amazing. And nitric oxide is also, you know, in other research, they’re using it as antimicrobials. So there’s some really neat, neat, neat research and they actually use it on catheters and such they’ll they’ll put nitric oxide on it in order to help reduce infection rates. Yeah, it there’s that there’s really neat, neat, neat information coming out with nitric oxide Of course, it’s a you know, gasotransmitter of the digestive system as well too, but the nitric oxide is one of the mechanisms of action but there’s also castor oil also stimulates PGE3 and it’s it touches on to the receptors in the gut that create parasol cysts. So that’s how it gets your
PGE3 is a smooth muscle receptor.
A hundred percent exactly so so it creates a paracelsus and smooth muscle of the body if you take it orally, so in the digestive tract but then also in the uterus so that’s why there’s a contraindications so don’t use castor oil if you’re pregnant unless you are inducing a baby and you’ve been you know your midwife or someone has recommended to do that. Because castor oil will stimulate any sleep muscle in the body to go to the bathroom so uterus is the other smooth muscle of the body. So that’s enough action to go to the bathroom. Then castor oil topically has been compared to capsaicin which is like hot red hot chili pepper, and red hot chili peppers are known as a very good anti inflammatory The only problem with it is it makes it red and a bit burning is called a rubefacient effect. It gets it gets really really red into the skin when you put…
Rubefacient yeah, right.
That’s a big word. I didn’t learn that in medical school.
No well hey…I love it.
These canadian naturopaths are smart!
So that reddening is uncomfortable for people right and then of course you know like think about it you get like chili pepper on your fingers or your hands what happens if you get a close your eyes it’s like burn, so you don’t want that but castor oil has the same effect in terms of like reducing edema, reducing the inflammatory markers and not and and not oh also reducing substance piece so your pain perception is reduced with castor oil topically and it’s an amazing oil.
So it does this topically but that you had a systemic effect. So how does that happen when you put soemthing on topically?
So it has to do with the the triglyceride chains in the oil of castor oil. So castor oil is composed of mainly something called ricinoleic acid which is unique and only available in castor oil and then hold on and then all of oil is another percentage of it which is about maybe like they’re 10% of it is olive oil or oleic acid, the triglyceride chain and the and another portion of that 10% is linoleic acid. So, you got your omega six so you got omega nines and you got omega sixes in there.
So the oils are there they do not have to be hydrolyzed or broken down by the body to get the ricinoleic acid?
No, so because look what happens here. So it ricinoleic acid is like is 90% of the oil and it actually has a molecular weight of 258 Dalton’s in dermatological medicine a substance needs to be a molecular weight which is lower than 500 Dalton’s in order to permeate through the dermis and the stratum corneum which is like but the you know, the the barrier, right the barrier layer of the skin of the epidermis so that you can get into the dermis. So castor oil has the ability to actually permeate through the epidermis and to be in the dermis and then be driven systemically through the body because in the dermis, you have circulation, you have the lymphatic system and all that. So it’s one of the only oils that has that permeability of the of the epidermis. It’s super cool.
So that is so that is really, really fascinating. I did find an article, there’s only one thing I want to ask you about. So one article in 2011 was trying to determine how much of it actually gets absorbed. And what they were looking at was a metabolite called epoxy decarbox, decarboxylic acid in the urine. And in this particular study, they showed that there was an increase compared to the there was an increase in the oil ingestion, not in the topical.
Not in the topical Yep.
Yeah, yeah. And i’ve done that too not like I funded one in my clinical practice, you know, I always look at that study and I don’t know the answer to that because I’ve just seen so much benefit. And I mean, like, I wear a castor oil pack every night and the oil like there’s very little oil left on me.
So what explain. Because clearly, you’ve seen success with this. And you and I’ve talked, I mean, I’m the first one to sit there and admit that just because the research doesn’t exist, yeah. Doesn’t mean that it’s not effective. And I think that when we last met at the meeting, one of my big passions is trying to get my group digestive health associates of Texas digestive Research Institute DRI And I keep calling them out that I want them to start doing research on natural things so that we’re not just always taking the check from right from Big Pharma. They’re the ones that can afford to do this, but it does, it does take money and it does. You know, the two studies that we did with Atrantil you know, I had to fund myself.
I’ve done just on a quick note, i’ve played games with different things that are supposed to be topical. And I’ll take take tegaderm is that a nonpermeable sticky thing that you can dressa wound with. So I’ll take like topical hydrocortisone or Benadryl or things are supposed to be and I will put it on and I will wake up in that same amount is still on my arm and it didn’t get absorbed at all.
Yeah, and well if you look too like, like most creams, like Uh, medicine creams like, God, there’s so many castor oil is a base ingredient and I’m pretty confident that they put it in there for the for permeability, it’s one of them, I think that they would they would have more castor oil it would help with it. The reason castor oil can do it is because on that recinileic acid chain on the 12 carbon you’ve got, you’ve got alcohol group. And so then that makes it a different flexibility, different molecular weight, it makes it a bit available in to move around in different in different systems. So I don’t know the answer why the metabolite didn’t didn’t, didn’t didn’t replicate at when from a castor oil pack to oral consumption of castor oil. There must be some type of mechanism action in the body where it has changed. And there’s a different metabolite either that or that it isn’t going directly through the digestive tract, right. It’s coming in and working through the body.
That’s what I was gonna say. I was gonna say that if you’re looking at the direct metabolite that probably had first pass metabolism through the liver. There’s different there’s different methods of excreting different things. There’s, I’ve seen drugs where they go, Oh, it doesn’t get absorbed. But the reality is what you’re looking for is not the drug there’s probably metabolites.
Of some sort that we that we don’t even know yeah exactly yeah that’s what my feeling is for sure because I’ve seen you know it’s to the point in in my practice where the first prescription I give is the castor oil pack now, like where before I’d be like umm I wonder if they would be willing to do it you know now my note boom first thing you’re doing because I’ve seen like I can like and I know when patients aren’t doing them because they’re not doing as well as they should be doing this according to my track records in my results, right because what castor oil packs do is they really support the system and and and those base problems the pillars of disease, which are you know, digestion not being good, right like low digestive enzymes, you know, not absorbing your food well because your gut is permeable, right or and not pooping well as well to you. Right, that’s a base pillar of health if you don’t have digestion, absorption elimination working well, you’re you’re you’re lacking on a base pillar of health. The other pillar is antioxidants. So like your polyphenols and Atrantil, that’s really important to get into your system. You know, castor oil also serves as a way to ingest oral oils. If you think about it for people who have, you know, gallbladder problems, right? If you have a gallbladder problem you you are lacking on essential fats in your body, right? You just can’t absorb them, your body does not absorb them. Well. Why not take them topically? Right?
Yeah. So even though there’s not a whole lot of literature out there. In your clinical practice, what would you say that the effectiveness is? And I don’t any, the Global Health scale, let’s call it that. You know, a lot of times it’s not how many so all the studies that are always being done, it’s there was a study that just came out in 2019, looking at how giving castor oil to people that do what’s called a capsule endoscopy. So we do something where I’ll have you swallow a capsule, and if it doesn’t go all the way through, it’s an ineffective exam and what they realize is by giving castor oil, you had better excretion without changing the visibility of this. So let me use different things. So in your clinical practice, which much like me, where I think that that carries a quite a bit of quite a bit of weight just because it hasn’t made it into the literature yet. It’s only because you’re a super busy person, you’re here in Dallas, you’re going to be hopping on a flight here soon. You’re gonna be flying around and people are like, Well, you know, Doctor, why isn’t there more literature? Well it’s because people like you out there on the front line are actually frickin working.
That’s right, I’m trying to get and I’m loving my work and I don’t feel I’m busy. I feel I’m living my best life ever. I want to make sure I reframe that because I don’t want to be a busy person. I want to be living my best life. But castor I mean, there’s so many things we could talk about here. It is like in clinical practice. It’s and it’s not only the castor oil in the castor oil pack that has the effect because the pack actually has a bit of an effect too.
Okay, so we keep saying this pack and it’s somebody everybody’s gonna eventually go and get on your website. Over there, they’re gonna go ahead and look at it but you have pictures of yourself doing it not other stuff. One of the things is we what in the heck is a castor oil pack? We’ve been talking this whole time. So you’ve got me convinced that castor oil transdermal it can be good for you. We’re, you know, we’re sitting here looking at this and then now I’m like okay, I want to get one What is it? How do I do it? It’s messy whatever.
So maybe a few more things before…should I get into that or should I talk a little bit more about what castor oil does because there’s still more stuff about just castor oil.
Tell me more about castor oil. Let’s geek out on castor oil.
And then we’ll go from there. So so you get so so you have the ability for like essential fats topically does that work or not the research I’m not sure if they’re absorbing it completely but hey what why not if they’re not getting oral oral fats try a different way. Then inflammation so we know it’ll work on the inflammation pillar of health. Right? Because inflammation is purposeful. I love inflammation if it’s in the right quantity, because in the right quantity, it’s going to help the body heal, right it It helps stimulate fibroblasts it helps you know change tissues in a little bit, It’s good too much then you got wildfires like California bad news. We don’t want that.
That is so the term that what I always tell everybody I mean what do you think working out is? What do you think sauna is? It’s a little bit of inflammation polyphenals do the exact same thing. It’s a term called homeostasis when your body adapts
Love it love it so good. And then also after that then there’s the what’s super important which is the stress and castor oil packs help with the stress and the oil is not the oils effect is actually the pocket affect that helps us to modulate your stress and put move you into parasympathetic state.
The pack itself does, it’s not even the oil.
Yeah, it’s not even the oil that moves you into the relaxed state it’s actually wearing a compress. So and this has everything to do with neurology and really understanding like the nervous system and triggers and receptors on the skin. So when you wear a compress that and the material needs to be soft so my castor oil packs of the material on the inside is incredibly soft. And there is research on this on PubMed, you’re going to love it like it has to do the research was done predominantly for like skincare companies understanding like the tactile perception, and what parts of the brain get lit up when you use different things like velvet on your skin or rough things on your skin. That’s really, it’s fascinating.
I was just I was in a meeting and a CEO of a company that develops weighted blankets.
Yeah, of course. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
You’re supposed to calm you down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For anxious kids and stuff like that.
Yeah. So so the work someone is very popular and doing a lot of work with this is temple temple, Templeton grand and she created the hug machine for autistic patients and had everything to do it basically, when, when when certain receptors are are stimulated. So when you wear a pack over your abdomen, specifically like over your liver, you’re stimulating some visceral somatic reflexes from the receptors like Merkel’s receptors, pressure receptors, all these different types of receptors that are in the skin that then communicate to the parasympathetic ganglion to stimulate that area and the parasympathetic movement. So you then you it’s almost like an escape button on your computer moving your body into the relaxed state via neuro feedback mechanisms from wearing a funky little cloth on your belly.
That is awesome.
Isn’t that super cool?
It just dawned on me as we’re geeking out here. This is like a like when Rhonda Patrick goes on Joe Rogan. She’ll go down like rabbit holes like this. It’s really cool.
But that’s that’s like super neat, right? So that’s why I’m like, you know, even now in my life, like I really try to always find really soft, beautiful material, because what it does it actually stimulates the limbic area of your brain. And the limbic area is your primordial part of your brain. It’s also where you can stimulate dopamine and feel good substances, like you and bonus, you stimulate oxytocin. And oxytocin is super important for feeling good. And also, you know, your body working well, right. It’s connection molecule and when oxytocin is stimulated, your cortisol goes down as a reflex.
Oxytocin, the the love
and connection hormone.
Yeah, that would make sense that if somebody developed a hug machine that you can start stimulating the oxytocin so the pack itself with physical application. See that’s really cool. And then I think that something like that, just educating to tell people that not only are you potentially getting this medication in there, but we’re going to work on you’re changing your whole neural process. We’re working with a company called brain FM.
And Dan Clark. We’re gonna get hin down the show at some point but they what they do is they use bineural beats, and they can actually get different parts of the brain to light up.
I’ve done that so awesome.
Yeah, so this is just a field of science that is just it’s just in its infancy
Well, we don’t even know the potential of our brain and our nervous system right but what we do know is that our nervous systems are on high stress and we need to practice the relaxed pause state and that was my biggest problem when I was sick was that I was constantly in stress mode and I had no idea how to relax and you know that’s why the first time I did the castor oil pack actually felt so calm I had no idea what that calm sensation was cuz I don’t think I’d felt it before. And that’s why I slept well that night. It was like such an eye opening experience for me, but the pack is partly what does that and that’s the Stress mechanism that we have to and and honestly, the thing is this if you look at things that really reduce your stress in your life, like so, if you do exercise exercise is great, but it also creates stress. So that’s not always the best one. Yoga is a good way massage therapy will do this as well, right?
So let’s talk about that, just super quick. Yeah, how many marathon runners have heart attacks? Because that continual stress you need to give your body a break. It’s a little bit of stress, recover, stress, recover stress recover.
Exactly so so you know, you can you can use stress to feel good or like exercise to feel good and you know, pump up those endorphins, but it’s not going to push you into a relaxed pause state, the one that you’re looking for, for healing, going for massage will do that, which is awesome. But let’s face it, how often can you go for a massage? Like, you know, I would do it you should do it every day because you should be relaxed every day. You should be training your body like an Olympian athlete to relax every day. You know, but you can’t go to the massage therapist every day and then there’s. It’s true. Right now in my life I can’t go every day but very shortly I’ll have my massage therapist with me.
On the way over here I was listening to, to a comedy station. Yeah, there’s a comedian named john Melaney. Yeah. And he was talking about how he was trying to relax and so we I went to go have a massage and she said, undress to your comfort level. And he goes so I put on a nice fluffy sweater and some corduroy and it was the most relaxing massage I’ve ever had. Because for a lot of people actually massage can be very stressful if they’ve got some body issues they don’t want they don’t undress and there’s a lot of things that go associated with that.
Absolutely. Plus your comfort levels if there’s been trauma in the past, you know, for them, it could be an experience they don’t want to go down.
Are you into meditation?
Absolutely. Hundred percent. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, like it’s, that’s an that’s another way you can do it. So that’s so so doing practicing meditation helps. So that’s another way and we want to be doing meditation daily.
This is going to drive my wife nuts. So I’m always, now I’m having podcast guest but usually I’ll listen to a podcast and I’ll just Amazon stuff. So now I’ve got my little Infrared Sauna at the house. I’m sitting there with my by neural beads meditating while wearing my castor pack.
You could totally do it in the sauna. Yeah, that’s awesome
The queen of thrones castor oil pack.
Yeah! It’s awesome. Well, it’s such a, you know, to me, it’s a foundational treatment and to me it’s like and the thing with these castor oil packs too is that you know what they’ve been around forever. They’ve been around since the beginning of time.
So this is one of those things I wanted to ask you which is, and I feel your pain. Yeah, this is why you’re out there. On this on the beat making vidoes on your mission coming on shows like this talking about it. It’s the same thing with Atrantil. Why when people finally get it, they’re like, why haven’t I heard about this before? And you’re like, huh, cuz there’s a lot of white noise out there. How do you cut through it? So how are you going to reach these billion people?
So I’m working with so many different influencers, whether it’s on Instagram, Facebook, you know, I’m really going to the people because I feel that this is a is the base practice that all of us need to be doing. You know like like this is something that I feel if everyone was doing a castor oil pack if everyone understood like everything that there poo was saying about them they I would I would probably be out of a job honestly because they would have all the tools to understand their body and know what to do to make themselves better right because if you understand what your poo is really saying about you and if you if you’re doing like base foundations like castor oil packs, like your system and a lot better shape of course you have to eat well and you know, you got to be you know, focused on that as well to you can’t be eating you know, that sad standard American diet and expect to not be at the doctor’s office but…but I would be out of a job right because it sets that foundation so strongly. And if you look at history, like history is really great, like Hippocrates loved castor oil and would use castor oil. GALEN, you know, Hippocrates is the father of medicine. You know, they would use castor oil and castor oil packs. GALEN would use castor oil and castor oil packs Cleopatra loved castor oil, traditional Chinese medicine back in the day they would use castor oil packs on inflamed joints IR Vedic practitioners like it’s just it’s permeated our entire life.
It’s super interesting because there’s other things that I’m getting into now that when I start looking at the science behind it that have been around a long time, like, and some things have been completely bastardized, and they just become neutral, one of the things I’m looking at is like Aloe Vera, I’m revisiting Aloe Vera because I didn’t realize that when it became completely industrialized, and it’s a Walmart product and stuff it the stuff that’s on the shelves is, is really nothing. It’s just water. Yeah. And then you start looking at, well, CBD, I’m a big CBD fan, you start looking at the at the hemp culture and how long it’s been around the same thing. And then it becomes lots of lots of not good people getting involved just trying to make a buck.
It’s the same thing with castor oil.
And that’s so interesting, because there’s so many similarities with this and if it works, and once again, if it works, so I’m going to, I want to throw this at you here. I would love to try this in my practice. So I need a discount code and I’m going to buy a bunch of these. I’m just going to give them the patients.
Oh, I love that. Oh my god, that’d be let’s let’s collect research on that. I would love to do that.
I absolutely am about that.
That would be amazing.
You know what people don’t realize is that you don’t have to have an FDA evaluation with us because it’s a natural product. You just say, hey, here’s a here’s a bowel scoring issue. Here’s a global assessment score. Just make it really easy. And then you just give it what I’m going to call it Net Promoter Score, which is, how likely would you be to recommend the queen of Thrones castor oil pack to a friend?
Yeah, super easy.
I mean, it’s super easy. And then what happens is if you get 7,8,9, or 10, you know that you’re really onto something because people are just inundated with just too much information. It’s just super easy. How likely would you be to recommend the queen of Thrones to be on another show? It’s like Yeah, of course. It’s easy it’s fun and so that’s what it comes down to but we put this on some people and then I personally feel like that’s yes influencers are things but you know, the proof is always kind of in the poop
It is always in the poop and, you know, it’s it’s and I want to go back to what you said about the quality things because castor oil has this major issue too because castor oil needs to be in a glass bottle and not in plastic bottle and on the store shelves the majority all you will see is actually plastic especially in the US. Yeah, well because of the permeability aspect right castor oil is a carrier oil and that that ricinoleic acid structure that that alcohol group on that 12 carbon that’s going to grab things like a claw and it’ll grab plastics, you know, like even if it’s BPA free there’s still other things and then just BPA and plastic honestly there’s like you know, if you if you know anything about manufacturing, there’s like sealants that are put or slide agents that are put in the plastic bottle UV UV agents in the plastic, it’s like so you know, we need to have castor oil and must be must don’t even use it if unless it’s in a glass bottle and organic. Because you are bringing this into your body.
That is so fascinating. And you know, you’re functioning as co host, Eric and I he’s at the the FNCE 2019 which is the largest nutrition conference and one of our favorite people Is there it’s Susan Lanky and she was describing somebody she was working with she does lots of food sensitivity testing.
Oh yeah. Awesome.
They actually went to Germany to have a family member tested where they found out that I’ll just call PB I don’t know but some plastic thing was affecting his mitochondria and the test could only be done in Germany as it turns out he was drinking the water every single day out of a plastic bottle. So clearly we’re not…something’s going on there.
And oil is even worse than water because oil transports things right oil is it oil, the oil grabs onto things and move things out of the body right like oil is like that. That’s just what it does. Like toxins like they’re all lipophilic right? So like if excess estrogens zenoestrogens are lipophilic they’re so they’re fat loving so they love fat so they they attach on to fat and fat is one of the ways that we eliminate toxins out of our body right so super important when you’re using castor oil that is in the glass bottle.
So while so while I have you here so we know that yours is…
Glass organic it’s actually extra virgin, which means it’s a very, very like, like with olive oil. It’s a very, very first of the press because castor oils also has good things like polyphenols in it. It has all those extra added, like vitamin E source of vitamin E. So that in itself has some great antioxidants in it. So we want them to be really, really high in high amounts in the first pressed oil.
Alright, so let’s go ahead and set up the study right now. What are what are some parameters and all it is is really easy. It’s just a score one through 10 or one through five or whatever. What is the first symptom we want to find out?
I would do bloating.
Now this is just on the external?
We’re not doing oral. Okay.
No. Yeah. There there was a good study about that as well so you would compare it to conventional laxatives and what they found was that they found that it’s it’s they didn’t increase the frequency, but they felt more satisfaction more complete evacuation. So it was very interesting and you do it with castor oil.
I read that one. That was in a nursing home.
Yes. Exactly in Europe. Yeah. Yeah, they’re they’re nice and progressive. It’s so so so progressive in Europe. I just love how they go into different things. So we did what we did sleep, we did bloating, we did constipate I would. I would do pooping. And then after that, I would probably do stress levels.
So with the pooping it wouldn’t be number which is what pharmaceutical companies always do. Yeah, it would be sense of full evacuation.
Yeah, satisfy like, like, like, like the way that you’re pooping, right?
And then what was, so four what was the fourth one?
The fourth one was stress.
Yeah, your perception of stress and then I would probably add like a feel better. Like how do you feel overall?
Okay, and just so on your website, how much is a pack normally?
Typically we sell the pack with the castor oil for $60.
$60. How long does it last?
Usually, so we recommend for people to do the castor oil pack daily. And if they were to do that, usually the pack will last for you know three months and you You might want to replace it. Oh yeah, it’s great. And then the oil however you will need to replace oil bottle every month. At least if you’re really diligent, you probably will need an oil bottle every two weeks.
So this is this is really interesting because we run into this all the time, or I do in traditional medicine. Yeah, these drugs that come out that they pay for these ads. Oh my gosh, it ends up being Oh, I don’t know. $700 a month.
Xifaxan will cost 1500 dollars.
Oh, yeah. I
f it’s not there, so when people hear 60 they’re like, oh, but it’s like, Look, if it works
$60 That’s fantastic. You guys use the rest of the money and go live your life of your dreams and go travelling.
Yea. Don’t be busy. Live the life of your dreams.
That’s right. Live the life of your dreams. 100%
That is awesome.
Yeah. Yeah, it’s great, you know, and that’s, you know, that’s my my intention is to, I want something to be affordable, you know, because even as a naturopath like when I see patients coming to me like they’re dropping thousands of dollars, like that’s medicine, that’s just what it costs to be and feel great, right? It’s the way that it is if you’re if you’re sick, but like if there’s a, this is why I’m on this this this soapbox like I need to get this message out there. This is a must for me is this this is what I need. I need the world to know before I leave this this beautiful planet.
This is awesome. Well, I tell you what, I think that you’ve covered a lot we geeked we talked about some personal stuff. I love having you here. So you’re going to reach a billion people. How do people reach you?
Awesome. So please go to my website www.DrMarisol. That’s D R M A R I S O L.com and find me there. I’m super active on Instagram. If you want a good laugh if you want to like talk about your poos. Find me on Instagram at Queen of the thrones. You really need to add that the in there.
Yea I figure that out otherwise you just pull up a bunch of Game of Thrones stuff.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s really funny actually. HBO actually didn’t want me to have my branding because originally had branded as Queen of Thrones. And they thought it was too close to Game of Thrones and I you know, my lawyer was arguing, “well she sells poop” education about poop and you know, castor oil packs and while you’re like, you know, worldwide syndicated show, it’s a little different world. But either way, HBO was really really honorable and amazing. They were cool that I could use it if I just added in “The” so just make sure it’s queen of the throne. We have a little bit more power. Yeah, it makes me feel a little bit more queenly.
I have to ask you about your little emblem or whatever that is. How did you come up withthat?
I it was actually from a picture I took you know, you know, as the universe place the right things in front of me. I was doing my first photo shoot for the launch of this company. And we were driving by strange street literally, it was called strange Street. And there was a toilet on the side of the road. I should’ve used this as my funny story to be in. And this this toilet on the side of the road. I’m like, Oh my God, that’s perfect.
A toilet just sitting out?
Sitting out there. It was you know, going to the garbage but like it was it was not even a garbage day. It was just sitting there people I guess had done on the renovations. So my photographer and I were like let’s let’s go so we ran to it and we started taking pictures. And so my logo is actually a picture taken from a picture of me from that photo shoot where I was sitting on the toilet and posing like a queen. So it just worked out perfectly and you know, my my thing is this is I this is my slogan “Own Your Throne”. Because to me I want people out there to own their throne not only their toilet bowl right their potty time, but I want them to own their purpose in their life and their passion and they really feel that you know, when you feel better, and you digest well,you’re pooping great like those are really that’s a base that’s that’s that’s the pedestals are going to help you to be able to live your best life and and and really achieve that life of your dreams. Right? So I really, my end purpose is that like, yes to get casseroles in everybody’s hands. But my even longer long term trajectory is that I want people, those billion people and more if you’re awesome and we just want to be healthy to like, jump on board and do this.
I think that is absolutely incredible. You know, I was just thinking about something.
My flight. My wonderful life.
Yeah, we need to get you out of here don’t we? I want to uh…
But it’s been I’ve been very blessed and thank you for having me too here.
Oh no, thank you.
Hey, we’re finishing up the show here. I wanted you to make a quick guest appearance and say hi.
Oh well hello Dr. Marisol. Welcome to Gut Check Project.
Thank you so much. So awesome. We just had an amazing I I took your seat and I have to say I’m more attractive than you, Eric.
We’re detailing the people here on all the benefits of Atrantil.
And I’m glad ya’ll were able to connect. That’s awesome.
Yeah, absolutely. And what I found is that she’s an amazing co host. So every time that you need to do one of these little things, we’re just going to fly…
Marisol in so that she can be a co host.
I’d love that.
That’s awesome. I just learned by phone I’m being replaced. That’s cool.
Only only when you’re busy Eric only when you’re busy.
We are officially gonna close out. I’m gonna let you close this out. Let me let me do something here real quick.
We are now running the Gut Check Project closing music Eric if you’d like to take us off the air please.
I can’t really make out everything you said but i think that i need to say go to lovemytummy.com/spoony to save money on Atrantil. Be sure to check out Queen of the Thrones Marisol.
All right, right on buddy. Have fun at that conference. He’s at FNCE 2019
Dr. Marisol, thank you so much. Let’s shut this down.
Have a great one, guys.