A Crohn’s diagnosis can seem like a disaster. The worry and sadness that is associated for the family that wants the best for their loved ones is real… BUT there’s more than hope! Paneez Khakpour joins Dr. Ken Brown and Eric Rieger to tell her story of triumph over Crohn’s. Living with Crohn’s doesn’t have to rob you of your life, as Paneez shares her story of being diagnosed as a teenager, learning to manage, and now live a fulfilled life of love and giving back to her community. Join the GCP, learn a little of what it’s like to have Crohn’s and for this incredible story that you will want to share.
Unrefined Bakery https://unrefinedbakery.com Use discount code “Gutcheck” for 20% percent off of your first online order!!!
In The End by Michael Weisberg, MD https://www.amazon.com/End-Michael-Weisberg-M-D/dp/1642374539
Chron’s & Colitis Foundation https://www.crohnscolitisfoundation.org/
Eric Rieger Alright guys, here the gut check project. It is now Episode 32. We have an incredible show today if you've ever suffered from ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, or anybody that you know has ever dealt with an IBD and inflammatory bowel Disease this show is going to be incredible. We have a special guest today and let's knock off a couple of our sponsors for today we have Atrantil, you can get your own Atrantil at lovemytummy.com chock full of all natural polyphenols you will not find a more comprehensive natural collection of polyphenols to address your bloating, your IBS symptoms etc Dr. Brown you know a little bit about Atrantil. Ken Brown I know a little bit about it and you know what I want to do to offer everybody you said lovemytummy.com I'm going to add a little something if you want your beneficial policy and also we're going to get into that with inflammatory bowel disease Crohn's ulcerative colitis, just put /KBMD you'll save some money. Eric Rieger Save some money go to love my tummy calm /KBMD Dr. Brown is exactly right. Treat yourself treat your gut treat your life Atrantil your bloating relief, it's what they do. Second thing of course here at KBMD health we have the gut check project at KBMD health we also have KBMD CBD and you can go to KBMD health.com and find your own physician vetted co2 all natural extracted, coa of everything that comes out and basically anything that you want out of a CBD we've got Dr. Brown Ken Brown Well the thing is is that everybody's kind of buzzing about CBD and I know even the Crohn's and colitis community people are talking about it but it's been studies have shown that over 80% of the CBD that people grab, don't have anything that is actually on the label. And what that means is you don't really take anything or you could be taking olive oil or whatever. Time and time again today today we treated people this morning and they said wow, I was on like three different CBDs and when we started the kBm the health CBD I'm actually noticing something Eric Rieger Happens all the time. So if you want reputable CBD, used clinically by gastroenterologist, check out KBMDhealth.com. Get your own CBD today and use code GCP to save 20% on your purchase Ken Brown 20% Eric Rieger 20% Next, our final sponsor of today's show is going to be unrefined bakery. If you want to get gluten free keto friendly paleo vegan, they've got it if you've ever wondered I need to adhere to a special diet and I'm afraid that the food's gonna taste bad guess what unrefined bakery makes great food get just so happens to fit your special diet Ken Brown You know it's nuts every patient that we had this morning Eric Rieger Yeah Ken Brown Knows of Ann & Taylor Eric Rieger They definitely do Ken Brown They love them like these like they are true celebrities watch that episode. It is awesome unrefined bakery, gluten free. They can do all the other stuff just watch a show it's it's fun Eric Rieger Based here in the Dallas Fort Worth area you do not have to live here to get your own unrefined bakery goods. You can actually go to unrefinedbakery.com use code gut check, and you can have yourself some 20% off I believe on your first order and then right 20% off anyhow unrefined bakery. com use code Check, save some money on your first order. So make it a big one, Ken Brown One impromptu sponsor.. and just keep watching the rest of the show to figure out why. Eric Rieger Yes Ken Brown If you are a reader and you enjoy novels, go look at a book called in the end written by Dr. Michael Weisberg. In the end. He is an honorary sponsor of this show and for reasons that you will soon see later on. Eric Rieger Yes, absolutely. As I hinted at before we got to the sponsors. This is a dedicated show to ulcerative colitis and Crohn's. And we're going to be visiting with a special someone who will tell us a little bit about her story, her journey, hopefully to relate to anybody that either yourself or a loved one on what it's like to face these kinds of challenges, but Weisberg is a fantastic supporter of the ulcerative colitis and Crohn's foundation. He knows a lot and he's, it's awesome. And he has a book like that available. So .. Ken Brown In the end Eric Rieger In the end Ken Brown Honorary sponsor. Eric Rieger All right, let's start The project. So now we just wait a little bit and then we're just gonna start talking. And I don't want to mispronounce your last name. Okay. Okay. eyeball 321 Eric Rieger All right, we are here on the gut check project. It is now episode number 32. I am here today with your normal host, Dr. Kenneth Brown, and we've got a special guest. Paneez Kahkpour. Oh, you know what we had her and now she can talk. Paneez Kahkpour Am I back? Hello Everyone. Nice to see y'all. Ken Brown Well Paneez has been my patient for over 12 years. What do we have 14 something like that. Eric Rieger Awesome. Thank you so much for coming Dr. Brown. You have a monikor for her already that you just annoyed her with. What is that? Paneez Kahkpour 12-13 Ken Brown Something like that I've always referred to her as the Persian princess. And so she is the she's Dallas's own Persian princess to the end here to the Persian community. This represents you My life the Persian princess. So sweet. She went to Iran of what about three years ago and brought me back a hand painted? What was that? It was art, but it told a story. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah, it was. I'm trying to remember what it was. I'm pretty sure it was. Maybe it's like an old fairy tale. It's like a couple. I think it's called Laylee Imagine. I think it's their story, and it's the picture of them. Ken Brown Wow. So.. really beautiful. I took a picture of it and send it to my friend Reza, who's who's a gastroenterologist in Florida, whose Persian also and he goes that's that's really expensive. Be very careful with it was like,Oh, okay. Eric Rieger You're hanging out the window of your car. Ken Brown Using it as a fly swatter Eric Rieger Trying to direct traffic in Denver. Ken Brown Yeah I was. Let's go over here. These Atrantil ads Don't stick on it at all. Eric Rieger So you've had Crohn's Correct, yes. For how long? Paneez Kahkpour 16 years Eric Rieger 16 years, you've been a Crohn's patient. And today, I think that what we really want to do is get your perspective on what it was like to be diagnosed to learn about what it was. What led you to go seek help in the first place? So back at the clock a little bit. And what did you first experience that drove you to go? In fact, you didn't go to Ken first you went to another gasterologist. Paneez Kahkpour I was. I saw pediatric gi doctor in the beginning, I was 15 at the time, all right. Yeah, I just had all the symptoms. I couldn't eat anything anymore. I was just constantly going to the restroom. And every time I went to a doctor or you know, General doctor, they said I had the flu. They'd give me antibiotics. Send me on my way. A couple days later, I'd be feeling terrible again. And that lasted several months. I went to the ER multiple times to get IVs, but nothing seemed to help. It was it wasn't until it was probably my like sixth or seventh ER visit and my grandma was like, You're not going anywhere you need to stay here. Someone needs to see you. I called an old pediatrician of mine. His name was Dr. Shams and he ended up. I gave him the symptoms over the phone and he said, I think I know what you may have. Let me call in a specialist. I was hospitalized at medical city Plano and then did a colonoscopy. And here we are. Eric Rieger lLet me ask you. So you said you're 15 .. So freshman high school. Paneez Kahkpour I yeah, I that would be freshmen Eric Rieger So as a freshman in high school going through this, I mean, your peers that age adolescence, what is it like trying to navigate that you internally you already know that you don't feel normal? So what were you having to do to? Paneez Kahkpour I wasn't ever eating lunch. I you know, everyone thought Something's wrong with her because she's not eating. And at that time, you know, it's something super embarrassing. You don't know what's happening with you. And so it's not something I really talked about. Just because I, I didn't know it was happening, and I didn't have anyone to really talk to at the time. And it wasn't until I was diagnosed. You know, when someone finds out you have something they know a friend of a friend. And I ended up speaking to a girl who was also someone who has Crohn's disease, and she really helped guide me kind of through the initial process of everything, and it was very, very helpful. Eric Rieger Wow. So when once you found her and so at this point, you probably found her after you've been officially diagnosed. Yes, correct. Yes. So what was it like? I mean that it doesn't sound like it, looking back 16 years, but there's probably at the time seemed like an eternity of not knowing Paneez Kahkpour Oh, yeah. Eric Rieger So what was that like? Unknown Speaker And it was, it was very hard. You know, when you're young, all your friends are doing all these fun extracurricular activities and you just don't have the energy Because I just, you know, was constantly sick. It was very difficult, and very, very lonely. Even though I had someone who had some experience, it was still it was just that one person who wasn't who didn't even live here. So it was pretty difficult. Ken Brown You said a word right there that I think this resonates with a lot of my patients, you felt very lonely. The Psychology of a disease like this is unimaginable for you. And for your loved ones. Would you just describe the loneliness a little bit? Paneez Kahkpour You know your entire family, the ones who know and who really understand are there for you, but I mean, they only know so much. They can only help so much because they can only empathize to a certain degree. And so, you know, when you just don't have anyone to talk to it feels really difficult to try to even begin like know where to begin and who were to go who to talk to, but I was able to find some people And find my way through the Crohn's and colitis foundation that took me a few years to even find I had no idea about it. No one told me anything. Ken Brown Why did it take so long to find the Crohn's or colitis foundation? Paneez Kahkpour You know, I just don't know if it was back then it was still something super new, you know, no one really talked about it, it. It's even still now it there's a stigma. It's, it's embarrassing. It's gross. So no one really talks about it. But it took me several years until I knew that there was such a thing as the Crohn's and colitis foundation. But after it took me a lot of googling, lots of lots of googling until I was able to find it. Eric Rieger So but leading up to that you you get this diagnosis and as you're trying to educate yourself and you haven't found the foundation yet. What type of changes did your pediatric gastroenterologist ask for you to make? What were you? Did you have difficulty with compliance? What was it like to step out of there and say I've got this diagnosis and now kind of have an idea of what I'm going to do. What How'd you handle that? Paneez Kahkpour I mean, it was hard. You're 15 and you, you know, don't, you're not usually on some type of regimen. You just kind of live your life as normal as can be. But when with this change, I was taking 15 pills a day, when I was barely even taking a Tylenol before that, you know, I struggled taking pills. And then yeah, he just told me I had to, you know, watch what I eat, see what my triggers are. Beyond this, you know, diet of pills, you know, it's pretty much I was what I was consuming and so my entire day was spent taking medication and so I didn't really have time to have friends really go out and do anything because I was at home taking medication or going to bed. Ken Brown I it's it's weird because I smile when you say this because I've seen you progress over these years and become this and tremendous advocate, super. I mean, healthy you you radiate this energy right now. And that is to bring so much hope to a parent that has a child who was recently diagnosed. And that's what I want this episode to be about your story. What I love hearing the questions that Eric is asking you are the wait a minute What is this because as a gastroenterologist, and this is probably what you experienced, it's like, Look, this is your disease. It's either 5% no seniors all sort of, these are our options. Where do we go from here? He's asking life questions. He has an 18 year old and a 16 year old. Yeah, it's Max 16 Eric Rieger Eh two weeks Ken Brown Two weeks Okay, it's getting real close. So he's asking it as a parent Yeah, well what happened this and that. I'm listening to this and I'm like, I asked it as a clinician. So I always keep going, I love I love where you go with this.I love it love it Paneez Kahkpour It took me many years to get here. It was definitely a bumpy road and I had lots of highs high and low moments. But you know, right now I consider it being a really high moment. I feel good. I'm in a good place. But you know, with all the struggles goals and all the things I had to get through with, you know, taking medication every day having to be doing IVs every six weeks like that was insane like, what 15 year old does that you know like that's it was a whole new territory. Eric Rieger So making a change. You talked about that he said, watch what you eat and pay attention to your triggers. My wife was recently diagnosed with celiac disease and for her there's, there's an interface, right? We used to enjoy just sipping on a cold beer every now and then that and that's gone. So that's not the end of the world. But the changes obviously for her are more stark when you family gets together or you want to go on a road trip. There's just certain things that were cut out what was it like to you to discover? These are my trigger foods? These are the things I can't do. I've got my circle of friends that may or may not fully understand what I'm dealing with. How did you integrate back to I've got at some point you're gonna get a crossroads I gotta get my social life back in. Paneez Kahkpour Right. Eric Rieger So what did you do? Paneez Kahkpour Well, first I educated all my friends. That's the big step because if they don't know what you're going through, if they don't understand what the disease is and they have Zero empathy for you. They don't really understand Ken Brown What did you say to them? Paneez Kahkpour Well, I have Crohn's disease and they look at me guys go cross, like what is that? I'm like, well, you know, it's a digestive disease. I try to use words as simple as I can for them to understand. I'm like, basically, I can't eat lots of things because my body rejects it. And half the time I say, if you want to know more, just go Google it because I don't want to get into the nitty gritty, all the things I just go look it up. But that that helped. And then finding out which friends were, you know, there for you and which friends were not that was really helpful. And then with diet changes, and just lifestyle changes, I had to I learned that had to be present for the things that could be present for and if I couldn't, then I had to listen to my body and say no, and really just crossing my fingers and hoping that my my friends would be empathetic to that Eric Rieger So for Paneez. Think about the ones Small advantage that she did have was turning her friends to Google. Because think of someone just a decade before that having this type of disease trying to share that experience with their new diagnosis with their friends, like, go to the library and look whatever up if you can. And thats just not going to happen. Ken Brown As an adult doctor, I have the advantage of sitting down with somebody that has either been handed off to me by our pediatric doctors .. had has some incredible ones in that Whitney Kendall Brown, john Baker, jack and they've got incredible doctors. So I get the pre prepared family. And now at this stage of my career, my patients are their, their children are starting to show up we're seeing more of this disease. So when I said you have what did you say because I don't know how much to vomit on somebody. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah. Ken Brown And well, quite honestly, when I met you when you came into the hospital as a flare And the only thing I was thinking back on my Paneez on and she'd been my patient for a long time. And you're an incredible patient, you do everything that you're that you're supposed to do, and you're an advocate, we're going to get into all of that about how you've been giving back, and how important people like you are coming on the show and doing this and being part of the Crohns Colitis society. I remember one thing I remember your mom crying. That's all I remember about the whole impatient experience, because it was too much. Eric Rieger Well, maybe, maybe she maybe your mom was curious about the challenges it was going to be to you. And I'm going to ask you about that in a second. But the second, the second thing I was kind of curious about that may lead into why her mom would would cry because I think that that's anybody cares for the kids going to be upset. But what was it that the physician said would happen? If you didn't make these appropriate changes? And know what, what did you begin to learn the risks would be if you didn't become a compliant patient, because at some point, for some patients, it doesn't matter. They just kind of like I don't really care. I'm just gonna keep living and yeah suffer the consequences. That's not the route that you took. So what did you hear that made you decide? I'm gonna do this. Paneez Kahkpour It was mainly how I felt. I didn't want to feel terrible anymore. I was very tired. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. You know, that's what I remember telling myself when I was really young, as I'm tired of feeling this way. And my doctors at the time, they just said, Listen, if you're not going to do this, you're not going to get better. You're just going to get worse. You're going to have to have surgeries, you're going to have to do all these other things. And mainly, the surgery is what really scared me. Especially being so young, because most people don't have to go through that stuff. But it was mainly just really not wanting to feel that way anymore. And I must say there was a period of my time where I wasn't compliant. And that's when I met you. And that was really what changed everything for me is because a doctor changed my medication. And I didn't really take it because it was a pill. I was on IV before and then it changed. And I got super sick and I was in the big, big flares when I met you. And after that, I was like, I never want to feel like this again, like it was not worth it. Eric Rieger Was the risk of a collective mean or anything else like that kind of on your radar? Did you think that that might ever happened to you? Paneez Kahkpour Thats always in there like the backburner. I always think that like in the back of my mind, like there's always a chance for all of that. Eric Rieger Sure. Ken Brown Yeah. So let's, for everybody else that's listening this not familiar that. I mean, our audience is getting pretty broad right now. And for those people that don't know what Crohn's is, that's why I wanted to say, what did you tell your friends what Crohn's is? And you said, I couldn't eat certain things. Paneez Kahkpour Right. Ken Brown Let me rephrase it now that you're, you've had it for a few years. What would you tell people what Crohn's is? Paneez Kahkpour I would just say it's a digestive disease is an autoimmune disease. And so basically, my body doesn't know what's happening. So it's attacking itself. And with that comes all these terrible side effects. Eric Rieger Yeah. Ken Brown That pretty much sums it up. Eric Rieger Yeah, definitely. Ken Brown That is beautiful, everybody Makes it too complex that So you went from. I'm talking so what you are gifted with is the ability to understand what your peer will will will hear which is I can't say automated. I can't say all this. I'm just going to say what I struggle with as a doctor is how much do you want to hear about this? Right? So when you were 15, you said like, the bottom line is I just can't eat certain things, and I may get sick. Now you're like, Look, here's the deal. Yeah, my body's attacking my own intestines. That's what Crohn's is. We're gonna leave it at that. Eric Rieger Yeah, definitely. So do you want to get into to mom? Because this is something that just for the audience, this is something before you even got here Paneez that came was like, the thing I never forgot is how resilient Paneez was and how much your mom apparently and I've never met her but was concerned about your future. Ken Brown So we each every single episode regrow and we we find new ways we find new science and I become a better doctor because of it. I mean Eric sees the patients he puts them all to sleep. And when I asked you to come on the show is because of the emotional aspect of being a parent. It wasn't so much that you because you're amazing. I mean, like you persevered and we're going to get to the Oasis camp where you've been a counselor, we're going to get to the fact that you're a speech pathologist for underprivileged autistic kids with so you are up here. I just always thought, did your mom know you were going to do that when you were diagnosed? Paneez Kahkpour You know? I don't think so. I mean, you have all the hopes but there was a time where the disease was all that I was and that very much defined defined me and my life. And I think that was a big struggle for her. Because you never want to see your child sick and in a hospital bed with hooked up to all these wires and IVs. And that's just a terrible site. She struggled a lot. My entire family did. My grandmother, my brother, my dad, but a lot my mom because she was my main caretaker, she was there for every step of the way. But I don't think she ever thought that I'd be doing all these great things and being, you know, self sufficient. Ken Brown It's a story of perseverance. It's a story of giving back. It's a story of sharing and caring and doing this kind of thing. It's so we were at the Crohn's and colitis annual gala, where my partner, Dr. Mike Weisberg was being honored as Person of the Year and gave an incredible touching speech, or keynote speech, I should say, where I thought it was just I mean, I admire public speaking, because just like you're doing right now, being on a mic is not so easy sometimes, but you're crushing it. Eric Rieger Well, not only is he a gastroenterologist, didn't he? Didn't you tell me once before that his one of his kiddos has RBD of some kind? Ken Brown Yes. So leading it up to this, and I want to ask a favor of you Paneez because it's going to take a few minutes. So I actually called Dr. Weisberg Dr. Mike winesburg last night and I said, Hey, I'm gonna bring a Crohn's patient on and I know that your son had Crohn's because you discussed it in your keynote speech. And I'll tell you what, I've worked with him for 17 years, and I had no idea this was going on. And so it was like, it's like the duck with the, with the flippers, right? You got to keep your game face on go to work, just like you've probably done a million times. Yep. You feel like, you know what, and you're Paneez Kahkpour Pushing through Ken Brown Push through. I got to tell you that. I'm just a quick side note, before we get back to that really quick. Crohn's patients. I have to tell them that they're sick. They're like, No, no, no, I'm good. I've been worse, i've been worse. They're tough as nails like Crohn's people just like at some point, they just start sucking it up and they're like, No, I'm just gonna deal. Screw you. I'm not I feel sick, but I'm sick of being sick. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah, you've done that to me. Actually, before Ken Brown I have. I keep trying to make her sicker than what she is. I'm like your bloodwork. Paneez Kahkpour I know I remember one time I was I was very, is during my second flare and I came in to see you. You had my bloodwork and I was, you know, I dressed up for the day trying to make myself feel good. You know, if you look good, you feel good type of thing. And you made me walk to the emergency to the hospital and it put a gown on because you're like, you're very sick. I didn't know it because I was like, I'm fine. I'm strong. I got this. And I wasn't. Ken Brown So when I called Mike last night, I was I just wanted like, hey, what was it like being the parent of Crohn's patient and so as it so happens, Dr. Weisberg, whom I admire very much, he's been my partner for years he was awarded Person of the Year for the Crohn's and colitis society. He is also an award winning author of two novels, the hospitalist and in the end that we discussed as an honorary and rather than just sit there and throw, you know, two lines Oh, it's it's tough being a parent of a..wrote a little bit and if you guys would humor me, give me just about five minutes. This experience is something that I want every parent to share. If you have a sick kid, I would like people to realize, because what he showed here and he just wrote this in an email, and I read it this morning and I went, holy cow, so you wrote it last night. So I'm going to read it. And this is from Dr. Weisberg verbatim no changes Eric Rieger All right. Ken Brown When I think back 13 years to when my son Reed was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, my mind flooded with vivid scenes and emotions. I will try to relate some of them to you in the next few minutes. Reed had never been a very active child. He was never one to ask to go out to play football or ride his bike. We just assumed that he was a laid back kid, a cerebral kid who enjoyed playing on the computer and playing video games more. At age 12. We decided To send him to sleepaway camp, which is not Oasis, a traditional camp sleepaway camp for a month over the summer, along with his nine year old brother Brent, in order to go, Reed had to have a camp physical, which my wife and I thought was routine. I was working that night when my wife called me and told me that the physical exam revealed that Reed hadn't grown an inch in the past year, and had actually lost two pounds. Plus bloodwork showed that he was severely anemic. I felt guilty that I had not thought of this as a cause of Reeds easy fatigue ability and avoidance of strenuous activity. But as I thought about it more I realized that night that Reed may have Crohn's disease. I had suffered from a related disease called Iritis, which is Crohn's disease of the eyes. And my sister had been diagnosed with Crohn's several years before. I knew that chromes presented and reads it Group and that all his symptoms fit this diagnosis at 730. That night I drove frantically to the pediatricians office wanting answers and I pounded on the doors of the locked offices for 20 minutes until I realized that it was futile. Since I was a gastroenterologist treating Crohn's patients, I knew what a devastating disease it was. And I became terrified. When I got home that night, I personally examine Reed and found that he had an anal fissure, which he hadn't told anyone. He'd been having rectal bleeding read younger brother went to summer camp alone that summer because Reed was too sick to go. My wife was too upset to drive Brent to the airport, so she stayed at home with read while I drove Brent and dodged all the other parents questions about why Reed wasn't going. I met my wife in a park in between our home and office one day at lunchtime, and we just sat talked, held hands and cried. We had no idea how extensive and severe Reed's disease was. But as his parents, we felt so sad for him and what he had been going through and what the future would entail. I personally felt tremendous guilt. I felt that I had given my son this disease and it was my fault that he was sick. I talked to my wife and several friends who told me that if I took all the blame for Reed's illness that I must also take all the credit for his admirable traits, such as his intelligence, his sense of humor, and his willingness to work hard to achieve things. For a very long time. These arguments did nothing to assuage my guilt, and it was only after Reed felt better that I quit being so hard on myself. We took Reed gastroenterologist who did his colonoscopy while I stood in the endoscopy room watching, I saw all the damage the Crohns said done to Reed's intestines on the telly Vision screen as a scope made its way around the colon. Afterwards, I had to go to work and even though I felt depressed and upset and guilty, I never missed a day of work or miss treating a patient due to my grief. Reed was started on enamoran and we waited for him to get better. Ken Brown Instead of getting better Reed worsened and he had more fatigue and high fevers his liver test went through the roof the Emoran was stopped just as we left for a family reunion on Amelia Island in Florida. I talked to his gastroenterologist the night before we left and he told me it was okay for Reed to go, but to take him to the hospital first for two sets of blood cultures. I drove Reed at tea at 10pm to my hospital and had blood cultures done. The trip to Amelia Island was a disaster. Reed was sick had high fevers the whole time, and I finally found a doctor in the box where they were willing to give him some antibiotics. Reed love to fish but the day of our deep sea fishing trip he was sick the entire time he lay in the boats cabin and vomited into a pail where he lay. I could go on with memories forever overall, until we took read to see Marla Dubinsky and IBD expert Los Angeles. He was constantly sick with pain, fever, diarrhea and anemia. Marla did testing put them on Remicade, which he took for six months until developing an anaphylactic reaction. I was scoping at the time that he had this in the same building I was so I had to run and see my son go through an anaphylaxis reaction. I had Remicade stopped and Dr. Dubinsky switched into humera, which he was on along with methotrexate for 12 years. He stopped the methotrexate last year and is now only on humera shots every two weeks. It was hard giving my son a shot every two weeks, but he was so brave and never once complained. I could tell you that I felt depressed devastated and guilty, and that the light in my life had been turned off. That is until Reed started getting better. Boy did he ever he started to grow and gain weight started having a physique that resembled his classmates instead of a skeleton. He went into remission grew to a normal height and weight. This summer he will graduate from medical school and start a residency in internal medicine. I am extremely proud of all he has accomplished but even more proud of the person he is. He never complained, never cried why me, but instead has met each challenge head on, and fought until he won. When I asked him why he wanted to be a doctor. He told me that he wanted to be like me and help make people better. He wanted to be a healer. The light in my life is back on and I am certain that I will be alive the day, a cure for the diseases is found an impromptu thought by Dr. Michael Weisberg when I just said What's it like being the parent of a Crohn's kid? Eric Rieger What why so short? Why no detail? Ken Brown There's a reason why his books are so good. Eric Rieger Now seriously, Dr. Weisberg, thank you so much for the submission that's it that's an incredible story. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah. Eric Rieger How do you think your your mom would relate to that? Paneez Kahkpour 100% like the feeling of guilt I think that my mom and my father felt that for many years and I still think they sometimes do still to this day you know, I don't think that ever really goes away. But yeah, the the guilt the depression just feeling helpless that you can't do anything for your child. Eric Rieger Did your parents have to watch you try like we've seen a lot of Crohn's patients do the the drug hopping from Enamoran to Remicade to humera etc. Till you finally found some mix. It works for you and then I mean, did you did you have to endure anything like that? Paneez Kahkpour Well, luckily, no, not really. I was on a bunch of like I was on Enamoran and all these other things when I was first diagnosed, but I was also started on Remicade, and I've pretty much been on Remicade ever since I took a year off, and that's when I met Dr. Brown because I wasn't complying with the medication I was taking, but I've been able to go back and Remicade and that's pretty much all I've ever really been on. Luckily, knock on wood. Ken Brown One of the coolest things here is in we forget we take the burden of everything but the fact that Dr. Weisberg noted that his friends and family and his wife said, hey, there's a lot of great traits. There's a lot of great traits do. I mean, it's so hard as a parent to go I mean, except for Eric every time Gage scores, thats my son. That's me out there. Ken Brown But it's so funny because his parents, that's what we do as parents is we just say What did I do wrong? How could I have changed something Because my child may be sick and I don't think it stops at Crohn's or colitis I think it you know anything juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. I don't want to get into the, you know the cancers and things like that everybody says what could I have done different and it was fascinating to think that it's exactly right the same characteristics that Reed, developed, or at least had all along allowed him to now he's gonna be a bass doctor, a real badass doctor, and I've met him and he's taller than me. I mean, he's a stud. Eric Rieger I live vicariously through everyone I know. Eric Rieger Nice. Ken Brown Yeah, you met him at the Crohn's and colitis foundation didn't? Paneez Kahkpour actually knew him through camp Oasis actually. Ken Brown Oh, we need what is camp Oasis says, Paneez Kahkpour Well, Camp Oasis is a camp for kids with IBD Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis to come for about a week to just live like a normal kid and have fun at camp. It's probably the best thing I do in my life every year. I've been going for I think about seven years are so best time of my life. Ken Brown I thought your doctor visits for me with the best thing? Paneez Kahkpour No, Yeah, that's it. That's like neck and neck. Eric Rieger So, Camp Oasis, if I remember correctly, there are 12 states that have a location that routinely host these kiddos with you see your Crohns. And then I think the one here in Texas is what outside of Bruceville? Unknown Speaker Yeah, now it's, um, it wasn't Bruceville and now it's some place called. I'm not sure. You know, Texas, so many little town. Sure. Not really sure. But yeah, it's some it's like two hours outside of Dallas. Eric Rieger Okay, nice. Yeah. And so, but it's directly affiliated with the Crohn's and colitis Foundation, correct? Paneez Kahkpour Yes. Eric Rieger And so, supporting the camp oasis. It's, you're going to have the latest research, the latest techniques, the the best, quote, unquote, training for a kiddo to learn how to deal with the situation right? Paneez Kahkpour Well, you know, they have it's basically a week where They can feel like they are heard or noticed. They have other friends there who also have the same disease they have right. And most of the counselors who are there, not all of them but most of them also have IBD. And so it's just like everything you could possibly want in life and a week. Ken Brown So somebody feels comfortable. They say my belly hurts that's.. Paneez Kahkpour Oh, yeah, we have a whole med staff everything like you were mentioning we have we have a whole med staff nurses, child life specialists that called everything every everything they would possibly need. They have their Eric Rieger So would you say by attending a camp like that having this disease affliction that you began to learn? I can have a normal life. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah Eric Rieger These people are making it or I remember when I felt like that you probably serve as a mentor if you just happen to be further along than somebody. Paneez Kahkpour Definitely. I mean, I feel I wish I went to camp as a kid. But I didn't so I'm lucky to be able to go as an adult. But yeah, they they see all these adults doing all these wonderful things like Reed going to medical school, and they see Oh, I can do that if they can do And they have the same disease I have, and they have had surgery, they've done all the things I've done, I can do the same thing. And its wonderful. Ken Brown What was your first year like as a counselor, because it had to bring back a lot of memories of what you experienced. Unknown Speaker I mean, it was, it was sad, in a sense, because you just see all these kids, like, I don't remember myself, you know, as a child, like dealing with all these things. We just see them and you just see how strong they are and how happy they are and how they, like you say they persevere. And I'm like, how even though I was the same, but I just, you see, and you're like, it's incredible. And every year I go I cry because some kid says something super motivating and inspirational. I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing anything for you. Because you're the one helping me like feel like I'm there to live a better life. It's all it's all them. It's really wonderful. But yeah, the first year was intimidating. I didn't know anyone. I'm meeting all these people with Crohn's and colitis, like that's super cool. But at the end of the day, you you leave with a family and we've all been together ever since. Eric Rieger That is awesome. How many times have we heard things on this show with from guests that giving is the best getting that you can do? Ken Brown Absolutely. Eric Rieger I mean, it really is. Ken Brown Absolutely. When I'm curious as there's a doctor, you said that there's a doctor that runs this every year? Paneez Kahkpour Well, yeah. So it's, it's the Crohns and Colitis foundation sets it up, and then they have a pediatric doctor come along, just because if there's a flare if a child needs medication, we they handle all the medicine, everything. They they do it all and yeah, there's a pediatric gi who comes along and does everything. Ken Brown Just the whole idea of just being a normal kid, and still experiencing your normal symptoms. And it's not like blown out of proportion. It's not like overreact. It's like Okay, come on over here. Let's go over. Yeah, you're not going home. We're gonna we're gonna make you feel better. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah Ken Brown That's cool. Eric Rieger Absolutely. And you can I noticed on the website, that Most people can volunteer if they wish to. And you can donate, obviously, directly to the camp through the Crohn's and colitis foundation. So it's obviously an incredible resource for people who are young and newly diagnosed. Ken Brown I'm going to put you on the spot. But it was there ever a time that you ever were this I'm really put you on the spot because because I think it's like a healthcare provider if I'm in a camp with people that potentially can get sick on me, you know, I'm like, worst case scenario person. So were you ever in a position where you felt that you were worried for somebody? Paneez Kahkpour Um, yes and no, yes. Because they weren't feeling well, or they, you know, have been vomiting a lot or something, you know, because a lot, it's in the summer. So, there's a lot of heat. But no, because we haven't fully staffed with all these smart doctors and nurses who come and help the kids. So like, there was never a time where you're like, Oh, this is not going to be good because they're fine. They're in safe hands. Ken Brown That's awesome. Eric Rieger That is awesome. Well, what can people do if they wanted to connect with someone from Camp Oasis? And let's say that they have a child that they want to get enrolled, but they may not live close, they're a particular resource or a way for them to get in touch with counselors to do that? Paneez Kahkpour I would say just going to the website would be the best starting point. Ken Brown Crohn's or colitis or the Oasis?.. Paneez Kahkpour Because that will take you to the camp, website. And m depending on where you live, you can see where the closest camp is and then I think there's always an email or phone number for the director who like sets up sets it up for every state. Ken Brown Man i'm sitting here thinking I'm just like, wow, it's, it would be really cool for like, I'm hearing this like I learned about Camp Oasis from you. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, I I feel like like a jerk like I have not been involved sooner than that. And then I went home and talked to my kids lil bit about it. They're just like, Wow, that's great. And I'm sure that there's a lot of different camps for different illnesses. Eric Rieger Oh, yeah Ken Brown I didn't realize that there's a lot of people giving back all over. Eric Rieger That brings me. That brings up my next question. I'm glad you brought that up because not that far from here for juvenile diabetics, there's a place called Camp Sweeney. And when people go and that was it, I was a maintenance man there when I was in high school, but.. Ken Brown He was the janitor. Paneez Kahkpour Come a far way. Ken Brown She's over here going, Wow, you've come a long way. I had Crohns almost died and I'm doing this but you.. Eric Rieger I guess you got out of your truck. But the thing that I found kind of interesting is almost and I'm kind of curious if it's the same for for camp oasis. The first time that someone came to camp Sweeney, sometimes there was a chance. They were reluctant to get out. They didn't really know why they were going. They really didn't know what they were going to get out of it. They kind of had to be talked into it by their parents. And then when they got there You saw it within the first 24 hours. Oh my gosh, these are my These are my people. Yeah, they understand what I'm doing so I guess I'm just saying that for someone who may be new to camp Oasis, you have a kiddo you get them get them inoculated, get into around and to talk to someone. Eric Rieger That's awesome.Well.. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah I mean, it's super helpful. I, I, I've seen kids who are newly diagnosed come into camp for the first time crying because they're like, I don't know anything. I don't know anyone. Like I'm super nervous. They leave crying, but not be because they're happy that they met all these friends, and that they're sad to leave, they don't want to leave. And so everyone starts crying. What are they? It's, it's the best. I mean, you know, whoever wants to apply to be a counselor. I think for the Texas camp, it's open. So come hang out. Ken Brown Well, no, we have a whole new topic that I want to get into. Oh, yes, because I've known Paneez the Persian princess for a long time. Eric Rieger This is..Eric has no idea what you know. Ken Brown Yeah. And I've watched Well, she has gone on to not only be a camp Oasis, Counselor, but she's doing something which I think is fascinating. It's huge. And now we're going to talk about something else. That is a passion of mine, which is autism. Eric Rieger Oh, yeah. Ken Brown Yeah. Eric Rieger So I did know that sorry. Ken Brown Well, you give a little background about your education. And now what you're doing because if you want to talk about the one two punch of giving back, Camp Oasis, and wow, that was just the jab. Now we got the right cross coming. This is cool Paneez Kahkpour You know, gotta do a lot. So I actually I went to University of North Texas here in Denton, wonderful school. I studied speech language pathology, pathology, audiology, so I have an undergrad degree in that. So technically, right now, I am a speech pathology assistant, but I'm working on my grad school applications at the moment. Ken Brown You speak better than us. So you're, you're the master in this room. Eric Rieger Thank you. Pretty good. Ken Brown Pretty good. Speak English real good. Paneez Kahkpour You know, lots of practice. But yeah, so I work with most of the kids I work with right now have autism. And it's it's quite a job. It's actually pretty fun. Ken Brown But it's not just autism. It's actually autism for a lot of underprivileged kids. Paneez Kahkpour Yes. for underprivileged kids. Ken Brown Yeah. And so what? So So Penny's and I were talking about this, because autism, I'm a huge advocate of the gut brain access, and that if you heal the gut and you feed the gut, then it will heal the brain and we got into a discussion so you asked all those questions at the beginning of the show. What did your pediatric gastroenterologist do? What did you recommend for diet recommendations? What did he do this and that? So I'm sitting with Paneez in my office and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's so cool. Can you get them to go gluten free? Can you get them to go Whole Foods? And she's like, Well, let me tell them my patient population first. Yeah, has described what the typical person lifestyle is and They're, they're home life. Paneez Kahkpour I mean, most of them are lower income. And so with that brings just difficulty and buying just healthier foods, and having access to a lot of stuff. I was talking to a parent actually, who had to take a child to the doctor, and they waited eight hours. So I'm like, they still have access to a lot of things. And so they're not eating as well as they should, or they may not be doing the things that you know, you and I have easy access to. So that's what makes a little bit harder. Ken Brown So, a couple episodes ago, Episode 28, Doug Blonde was on here and I challenged him with the same thing he is in. He's a medical doctor that it's an advocate for whole food plant based. And I said well, the problem with that is is that when you say whole food plant based you think of going to Whole Foods and spending a lot of money. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah. Ken Brown And I and he told me that no, you can do it really cheap and he gave prices he discussed the price of doing lentils versus as long art..My gosh, I can go down rabbit holes on this one, our secret weapon, which we'll reveal one day he sent me some incredible articles on manufactured fibers or fibers that that are added to foods to augment the plant based diet and to do things like that and the inflammatory process that it actually causes. So if you're opening up a package mean just that means that they put stuff in there which will pause an inflammatory reaction in your body. I know that that leads to intestinal inflammation resulting in brain inflammation. So on Doug's episode, we discussed how you can buy for pennies on the dollar foods which will supply thymine, which I mean he's got the vitamins down, he's got the fiber down. So the misconception is that you can actually take a parents say don't go through the drive thru McDonald's, it seems cheap. When if you can just go to the periphery of the grocery store, it's always the periphery. It's not the middle, not the middle. Do not walk down the aisles, just walk around the outside, you'll be able to fill your cart with sustainable foods which provide most of the nutrients that you will need. And you can do it in a cost savings and it, it hurts my feelings that I mean, I feel like you're doing an uphill battle right now camp Oasis is awesome. That is like you crush it right there. Now you're going and you're helping autistic kids that when they go home, probably the parents are not educated enough or Well, nobody is it's America. Nobody's educated enough on how to properly eat.. Well I'm not I'm learning. Eric Rieger Well think about the challenge that you said about the mom who has to wait with the kiddo for eight hours. That's a work day for her. It's a work day for the dad. I mean, they're sitting there doing that they're negotiating. I'm going We are going to have to do without because we have to go and do this. And we're going to waste all day waiting. Ken Brown So let's go back to the parent perspective again. So now you have an autistic child that you are trying to work on their speech capability to express their emotions. And a parent shows up and says we need to pick them up. What's your interaction with the parents? Paneez Kahkpour Um, it's not too much. It's usually like, every time I see their child, it's maybe like a four or five minute conversation. So not a whole bunch just because in that conversations is, this is what we did today. These are the things you should try to do at home and see you next time. That's basically as much as we really get because most of its spent with that child. So it'sa little hard. Ken Brown I could just imagine what happens with somebody who is worried about paying next month's rent. Eric Rieger Oh, yeah. Ken Brown And they have a trial that it has some trouble communicating on the Autism Spectrum Disorder it's the the ability to become empathetic to that situation. You have that ability because you have Crohn's disease, and you have muscle through it and you chose a career which could be one of the more difficult uphill battles to change a the underprivileged autistic community. And I commend you on that. Paneez Kahkpour Thank you. Ken Brown That is awesome. That is it is a bold, bold thing. Definitely, but I could totally see. Man, it's a hierarchy of needs. I have a I have a patient whose they actually corrected their their child's autism but they also have the resources share the intelligence they I mean intelligence, meaning they're both like super educated, and deep dive and didn't stop at the traditional medical thing. And they started looking at all kinds of alternative therapies like hyperbaric oxygen chambers, which then they purchased for their house and they, I mean, stuff that I mean, whenever they come out, I don't know why they even come to see me. I'm just like, so what do you want? What have you read? You're gonna teach me I got several patients like that run like we should probably meet at the coffee shop I learn from you. But.. Eric Rieger What's it like to have to have a kiddo who who has a breakthrough after the training, so maybe you have somebody who's been non verbal, and then suddenly they.. Paneez Kahkpour It's greatest like every, you know, if someone else looking at it may not seem like a very big change. But from someone who doesn't say anything to like, give me a sound is just incredible. It's, you know, it's those little baby steps that make it a, you know, a big change. And so those baby steps are the big ones. Eric Rieger I'm curious as a parent when they see like this one little victory that helped them kind of buy into the process that Okay, we've got this little victory here. This isn't time wasted, my child's doing better. And maybe they expand their acceptance of things that you're yeaching them to do at home. Paneez Kahkpour Yeah, I mean, I think so to a degree. Yeah, they, especially the ones who, because I do home health as well. So the ones who see are in the sessions or they can hear they're like a, you know, earshot away, they can hear it. I think it's super helpful. Because, you know, they see like, how much time is spent. And then you get that one little like, like, vowel sound, or like, you know, kid thing more or something super simple that we take for granted, because, you know, we never had any issues with that. But yeah, it gives them hope it gives them you know, like a light at the end of the tunnel. Ken Brown So, like I always do when I just think what's going on what's going on at a cellular level, how is this happening and you're dealing with the end product of this which is necessary, which communication is the key, so I've never told you this. But anyways, I grew up I was a really bad stutter. And so my ability to communicate was really limited. Like for the first six, the first six grades, and I was put in remedial classes, because they just assumed that I was stupid. And what I did is rather than stutter I did a type of stuttering called blocking. Right? I could see the word coming. And I'm like, I'm gonna stutter on that word. Eric Rieger Really? Ken Brown Yeah, no, yeah, it was bad. And so I would block and then I could not get the word out. And then it just became this facial contortion thing. So I'm extremely empathetic to the fact that communication is how you're labeled. So if you cannot articulate yourself, oh, he's so articulait he's must be intelligent. If you cannot verbalize what's going on, then so I'm really well, I went to speech pathology for years and then when I.. So I didn't learn Spanish as a child, I learned Spanish as an adult in med school and went back to the same speech pathologist that I went to when I was a child. And he was just like, crap, you're greedy. He's like you how bad you were. Now you want to like not stutter in another language, because it all kicked back in and then tremendous anxiety and everything. So the ability to actually communicate and a speech pathologist role to help somebody do that, whether it's somebody's post stroke, whether it's somebody that is autistic, whether it's somebody that stutters, is incredible because we're judged by how we actually articulate. And it's the social norm. And I love how you're saying that if I can get somebody to just acknowledge I can see that they're getting it. Eric Rieger Yeah Ken Brown That's what's cool. There's something in there. And I want to my my passion is the gut brain access, and I believe that autism is really no different than dementia. It's over activity, it's really no different than stuttering its activity in a certain neural complex, which prevents you from having the appropriate connection. It's all electrical. And there's some really cool stuff. Johns Hopkins is going to do a study on a molecule called sulforaphane coming up, too, because they're showing some deep some improvement with that, if we can find this. And so, the reason why I think it's so interesting that we talked about diet because I've seen in my own practice, autistic their 16 year olds, because that's the earliest I can see him. When we improve their gut health, their brain health improves. So to anybody that's listening that has an autistic child, I think that people like you are making a huge difference. And I think that we have to continue to realize that, that there are people out there working on a cellular level and there are people out there working on the functional level, and that's what you're doing. You're changing the moment. It's great if I say Oh, hang in there. for 10 years, there's a drug or a new study that will come out, but you're grinding it out. That's what I love. Paneez Kahkpour Thank you. Eric Rieger That's awesome. Ken Brown What's your favorite thing in that job? Paneez Kahkpour No session. No days the same. You're always keeping you on your toes all the time. Keeps it fun, and you get to play with kids. It's great. Eric Rieger Sounds creepy when a guy says it. Ken Brown So Eric, Eric actually tried to be a at home speech pathologist. But I mean, for some reason showing up in the windowless van. Eric Rieger Kind of.. just said candy on the outside. They asked, Why do you want to do this? I just want to hang out kids. That's awesome. Thank you, Paneez so much for coming. Paneez Kahkpour Thanks for having for having me. Eric Rieger Absolutely what an incredible show. Ken Brown You know ...I just love it. I mean, I just admire you so much. You. This is like, like we talked about the whole show. It's a story of endurance. perseverance of being open and vulnerable. Last episode, we talked about being open and what makes people that way. And every characteristic that we talked about you absolutely show the willingness to see new ideas. Try, just get out there. And if you don't succeed, just keep adapting slowly. Paneez Kahkpour The only way.. Ken Brown So where are you? I'm gonna put you on the spot again. Where are you at? 10 years from now? Paneez Kahkpour 10 years from now, hopefully still in remission..Hopefully, I mean.. Ken Brown She said that she kind of looked at me like, well I don't know keep me in remission.. Paneez Kahkpour That's on you. Hopefully in remission, you know, hopefully I went to grad school and accomplish that because, you know, working on that right now. Maybe working in a hospital, maybe have my own private practice something, something along those lines. Eric Rieger Now, I don't know you didn't prompt me because I don't know but I don't know if Paneez is one of the Crohn's patients that we have currently that is taking Atrantil and CBD combo is that Paneez Kahkpour I was just on the CBD Eric Rieger Just on the CBD. So I okay, yeah, that's what I wanted to give us your perspective and what you felt. Did you get more control over? Paneez Kahkpour Yeah, I mean, so the thing is I overall I felt great, but because not going on again. Thank you Remicade. I've been feeling pretty good. Eric Rieger Sure Paneez Kahkpour Majority of the time I don't really have too many you know, issues maybe a little tiny players here and there but nothing too big. So overall, yeah, I just feel good. I sleep well. You know, no complaints. Eric Rieger No, that's that's the awesome part. I get to see the patients when they come through just like you've been through and there's a handful that have just verbalized. I don't worry so much about taking, whether it happens to be Remicade or anything else like that as often They're able to space it out just simply because they feel like they've controlled their inflammatory process. They don't have the flare ups like that anymore. I mean obviously they're adhering to a specific diet for them. But it's it's curious because it CBD to me four years ago I didn't I didn't believe the hype at all. I had to wait till we proved it clinically before I thought there was anything to it. Ken Brown Well, we this is this is where I want to end up in 10 years I want to end up with the ability to heal people's guts and their intestines so that we decrease neuro inflammation and it all comes down to overactivity your Crohns is because your immune system is overactive. All we got to do is ratchet it back a little bit. And fortunately, Remicade figured out by doing it in one particular manner that worked really well which really well for you. I got a lot of patients it doesn't and I'm not bashing Remicade at all We love all and that's why we tried these different biologics. That's why Reed had an anticlimactic shock and he had to go and humera and his doctors you just sit there and you'll Wow, contrary to what people think we really all want to cure for this. Eric Rieger Sure. Ken Brown We really want to care we I could sit here and do if I had my 10 year goal is just Well, this show is huge and we've got you know, we're having fun doing it still in 10 years Eric Rieger Yeah Ken Brown Cuz I like doing it and then I leave the show and I do like 20 Hemorrhoids and then I just go home Eric Rieger Wow Ken Brown I love hemorrhoids Paneez Kahkpour Sounds like a good line. Eric Rieger Big goals Ken Brown Big goals, has nothing to do with you know.. Eric Rieger Someday I'll have a full tank of gas Ken Brown I'm a.. maybe I'll have a new pair of jeans. I don't know. Yeah, no. Eric Rieger It's a little thing. Ken Brown It's dude, keep your I mean live the dream just keep the dream real accessible. Paneez Kahkpour Attainable goals. Ken Brown Attainable goals. Eric Rieger Weird way in that episode, but yeah. Ken Brown Well I want to..Well, we're almost done. I want to ask one another thing here. Just let's do a shout out to your mom because she suffered a lot through all this. Paneez Kahkpour She really did. I love you, Mom, thank you for everything. Ken Brown Wave at the camera. Paneez Kahkpour Thank you. Love you. The best mom ever. Ken Brown Can you say I love you mom and Farsi? Paneez Kahkpour ....Mom. Eric Rieger Big shout out to all the parents of all all kinds of diseases like that. I mean, you are your kids champion. Ken Brown This is the look at the camera one more time. This is this is the beautiful face of Crohn's disease. Paneez Kahkpour Think of Crohns and see my face? Ken Brown Yeah, and this is the beautiful face of a janitor at a.. Eric Rieger Camp Sweeney. Ken Brown Camp Sweeney Eric Rieger It's been a while but yeah. Well said it. Ken Brown I think that is a great episode. I think it's very touching. I want to thank Dr. Mike Wiesburg for telling his story. That is very compelling. Go over and Get the book in the end. You can see by the way he writes that and that was like five minutes. Yeah. Like I mean, you know his his novels are incredible. I want to thank you so much Paneez for coming on and sharing I know that it's like really personal and stuff but we just need to get the word out to the Crohn's and colitis foundation camp Oasis thank you so much for everything that you guys do for all of this. And ultimately, I'm hoping that through some polyphenols like Atrantil and CBD, we can start making people feel better heal their guts heal their brain, stop the immune system and we will eventually get to the point where we would talk remember that time when people used to develop Crohns? Eric Rieger Yeah, that would be a great day to get to in fact, you can help them get to that day by donating to the Crohn's and ulcerative colitis foundation and if you go to gutcheckproject.com check the show notes for this show. We will be certain to have the links to you can check out camp Oasis how to be a volunteer how to give to Crohn's and UC, it's it's, it should be a goal. Ken Brown If you go to KBMDhealth.com and put in a code Persian princess but has to be in Farsi, you get 120% off. Eric Rieger Yeah, good luck getting that keyboard Paneez Kahkpour I have it, i'll go use it right now. Ken Brown Eric we're losing money! Eric Rieger It's not gonna work. Ken Brown Don't do that. Okay, nevermind. I retract the Persian princess code in Farsi. Eric Rieger Thank y'all very much for tuning in again, check project Paneez. Thank you so much for making time for us today. Paneez Kahkpour Of course, Thanks for having me. Ken Brown Awesome. Eric Rieger See you all later. Paneez Kahkpour Awesome. That's really fun. Than you...